"Yes. I’m talking to you EC." -- Well, I am an Estranged Child and I'm willing to listen...

So your saying my post isn't believable are you Yennifer, what are you saying then, that I'm a liar?

None of our mistakes have led to a bad relationship or estrangement with our other son so what's your point? I hope you're right I really do, that any mistakes you have made wont ever result in a bad relationship of estrangement with any of your children.

We never expected to be estranged from either of our sons, but we are.

Wait what? We aren't talking about people here? We are talking about people like the OP. I don't know everything you have shared here Smileless2012! Why did you decide I meant you without just asking? x

I think people sense the arrogance of others sometimes, the total absoluteness of their wording that they are the only ones who are right and lacking ability to hear any other point of view.

Ain't that the truth. And if only we were born with a mirror in our hands. Xx

Yennifer, I can't say with any certainty that what I'm about to say is true, but it appears to be-

Sometimes clarity is mistaken for arrogance- And when mistaken, there's defensiveness- There's the mistaken sense that people aren't equal, instead of it simply being a case of a person, any person, being better at "one" thing than another-

For example, when people are clear about what they will or will not allow, resulting in the establishing of a healthy boundary, their effort is often mistaken for arrogance instead of compassion, compassion for all involved-

With clarity, one can assume responsibility for their actions-

Were you talking about people like the OP Yennifer? You certainly didn't make any reference to the OP in your post which directly followed mine.

There is a big difference between talking about things we have seen and heard and things that have been directly said to us as our own experience and saying that can't have possibly ever have happened because it is outside our own experience. Or like OP saying that they did things a certain way so all must be able to achieve the same. We are all different people and it's arrogant to think otherwise. It's arrogant of OP to define abuse when we all know that there are so many kinds of abuse that are damaging. All my comments on this post have clearly talked about what I have seen and heard elsewhere and why I like it here rather than there... Maybe I was wrong about that or maybe some buttons have been pushed but its me doing the pushing x

I don't want to get in the middle between you, Smileless and Yennifer. I just want to say that, in general, I think we often need to be clear about who we're addressing or referring to. It can be so easy to misunderstand on these online forums where we don't hear intonation or see body language, etc.

Starlady I do do that if I am talking to someone and not just adding to the conversation x

By "we," I mean all of us here on this forum.

Ha ha not me doing the pushing I meant to say! Now I sound like an arse eh x

No, Yennifer. We just need an edit button. LOL!

We do!

Yes we do need to be clear Starlady.

Maybe I forget to use people names when answering sometimes actually Starlady. I can see why that is a huge problem actually as, sometimes I read something and go to the reply box before I look at comments after. Not a good idea x

Chewbacca, we are born with mirrors- Our minds are mirrors, sometimes clear, sometimes fogged, sometimes wavy and distorted like a funhouse, sometimes cracked ..

Smileless2012, I've clarified. Why are you still badgering me? It's annoying x

And sometimes so completely covered with bullshit that they're no use to anyone. Xx

What I find extremely annoying is being accused of badgering a poster when that is not what I am doing Yennifer. I agreed with Starlady about the need to be clear. How can that possibly be construed as badgering you?

I'll tell you one thing, I'm not easy to hurt. I've never met another human being that could cut me like my mother. The OP only hurt by reminding me of my mothers words and if I knew who the OP was I'd not be bothered by them in future. Gaslighting, invalidating comments and passive aggression in general I'm not really fussed by honestly. You'd have to try pretty hard to out do the woman who raised me lol x

It's good to know you're not easily hurt Yennifer. After all that we've been through, neither am I.

OK Smileless2012 that's fine x

Yennifer I've noticed that you've used the term "badgering" several times this weekend. On each occasion that you've accused someone of "badgering" you; teven when they've only mentioned something to you once. I know this because you've done it to me and I've come to recognise it as an avoidance tactic.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, " Badgering is to bother. Persistently. So please get it right. Because it's an annoying to be accused of something one hasn't done, isn't it? . Xxx

"I could have put up with so much if she had just loved me. I would have put up with so much less if I hadn't loved her. "

This comment really got to me, Yennifer. I can't even find the right words to express why. Just sending you lots of hugs!

Starlady, to be fair, you failed to point out that all Smileless had to do was ask-

Thanks for the hugs Starlady x