Father removes 9 yr old daughter from school over sex ed lessons

We didn't have any sex education and I'm glad now that I'm not young and expected to do some of these things young people indulge in.
I didn't believe people actually did things like oral or anal sex until relatively recently.

Doodledog

*I believe the thinking is that it is better to explain as much as possible before puberty strikes because the children will be less embarrassed if they don't feel it's something that is already affecting them.*
That makes perfect sense to me, and I am very much in favour of talking about bodies and how they change, as well as why and how it feels. I also agree that this should happen before the changes start to happen to the children.

But I don’t think that sexual acts need to be discussed in any detail at that age.

Precisely.

Education to ones own impending body changes is good.

Sexual act discussions can wait.

Doodledog

*I believe the thinking is that it is better to explain as much as possible before puberty strikes because the children will be less embarrassed if they don't feel it's something that is already affecting them.*
That makes perfect sense to me, and I am very much in favour of talking about bodies and how they change, as well as why and how it feels. I also agree that this should happen before the changes start to happen to the children.

But I don’t think that sexual acts need to be discussed in any detail at that age.

I don't think the curriculum includes sexual acts at primary level.
Perhaps problems have arisen because schools are at liberty to teach more than the curriculum requires and some of the source materials, eg BBC Bitesize, have been far more explicit than has been set out in Government guidelines.

Norah

Doodledog

I believe the thinking is that it is better to explain as much as possible before puberty strikes because the children will be less embarrassed if they don't feel it's something that is already affecting them.
That makes perfect sense to me, and I am very much in favour of talking about bodies and how they change, as well as why and how it feels. I also agree that this should happen before the changes start to happen to the children.

But I don’t think that sexual acts need to be discussed in any detail at that age.

Precisely.

Education to ones own impending body changes is good.

Sexual act discussions can wait.

I keep asking but here we go again. Please could you point me the evidence of where this is happening.

No evidence has been produced so far.

No it doesn't happen in primary but it's information children need to know before reaching 16

This dad pulled his child out of school because she was learning the names for the different parts of male and female genitalia...

What on earth he would do when she starts a period or has a medical concern with any part of that anatomy I don't know

Calling it a flower or a mini or any of the silly nonsense names I hear just won't cut it...

Callistemon21

Doodledog

I believe the thinking is that it is better to explain as much as possible before puberty strikes because the children will be less embarrassed if they don't feel it's something that is already affecting them.
That makes perfect sense to me, and I am very much in favour of talking about bodies and how they change, as well as why and how it feels. I also agree that this should happen before the changes start to happen to the children.

But I don’t think that sexual acts need to be discussed in any detail at that age.

I don't think the curriculum includes sexual acts at primary level.
Perhaps problems have arisen because schools are at liberty to teach more than the curriculum requires and some of the source materials, eg BBC Bitesize, have been far more explicit than has been set out in Government guidelines.

So do we know, Callistemon that this is the case (Bitesize) of the school excoriated in the Daily Mail?

Thankfully my dad did explain menstruation to me as my mother would not

DaisyAnneReturns

Callistemon21

Doodledog

I believe the thinking is that it is better to explain as much as possible before puberty strikes because the children will be less embarrassed if they don't feel it's something that is already affecting them.
That makes perfect sense to me, and I am very much in favour of talking about bodies and how they change, as well as why and how it feels. I also agree that this should happen before the changes start to happen to the children.

But I don’t think that sexual acts need to be discussed in any detail at that age.

I don't think the curriculum includes sexual acts at primary level.
Perhaps problems have arisen because schools are at liberty to teach more than the curriculum requires and some of the source materials, eg BBC Bitesize, have been far more explicit than has been set out in Government guidelines.

So do we know, Callistemon that this is the case (Bitesize) of the school excoriated in the Daily Mail?

Yes.

It was not designed for primary pupils either, it was part of Bitesize for a GCSE course which the school decided to use.

The BBC confirmed that they have removed it from their site.

So the school in the DM has confirmed that they use Bitesize for Primary pupils even though it was designed for senior pupils? Can you tell me where to find that statement?

Good to hear the BBC has removed it.

DaisyAnneReturns

Sorry that posted itself Dickens. Why the "bloody hurry" you ask. Why do you think secrecy is better?

Questioning the speed at which we feed the lexicon of sexual activity into children is not advocating "secrecy" - that's entirely your interpretation.

Given that there has always been a need to educate children about sex, I'm not arguing with the premise, I'm simply questioning the necessity to introduce them to specific acts that not all will be ready to assimilate at a young age - bearing in mind that children develop at different levels.

If this has happened because the BBC programme was misused it seems entirely solvable. It would need following up with schools.

Personally, I would need to know that this was the case before I will believe that is what happened. It perhaps seems unfair, but I doubt I will ever believe something where the start of the story comes from the gutter press. I think these papers cause immense pain and devastation and we don't yet seem to have any actual proof.

Another slant on this one. Where I live we had a father like this who clamped down on so many things with his children. Turned out he was the biggest 'casanova' going with absolutely no conscience where adult relationships were concerned! Just saying!

DaisyAnneReturns

If this has happened because the BBC programme was misused it seems entirely solvable. It would need following up with schools.

Personally, I would need to know that this was the case before I will believe that is what happened. It perhaps seems unfair, but I doubt I will ever believe something where the start of the story comes from the gutter press. I think these papers cause immense pain and devastation and we don't yet seem to have any actual proof.

It perhaps seems unfair, but I doubt I will ever believe something where the start of the story comes from the gutter press. I think these papers cause immense pain and devastation and we don't yet seem to have any actual proof.

The tabloid landscape is choc-a-block with sexualised imagery, particularly the celebrity sections - replete with an assortment of stars (usually female) flaunting this, that or the other toned bit of their anatomy, so it's a tad hypocritical of them to adopt the position of moral vanguard for our children's welfare.

But they're not going to let the opportunity - to further criticise either the teaching profession or the NHS - slip by.

kircubbin2000

We didn't have any sex education and I'm glad now that I'm not young and expected to do some of these things young people indulge in.
I didn't believe people actually did things like oral or anal sex until relatively recently.

Oh they did 😀.

There is lots of evidence from paintings (including graffiti) in Roman ruins, for example. And it was usual for Ancient Greeks to have women for procreation and boys for pleasure - the rich ones anyway. Also the use of the term ’French practices’ for oral and anal sex (both of which carried minimal risk of pregnancy) shows that people in both France and England partook, and there is no reason to believe that it didn’t happen elsewhere.

I don’t think that anything people do in bed is new. Each generation thinks they invented it, but that’s because it is new to them, and there is something taboo about imagining your parents being sexual beings.

...and there is something taboo about imagining your parents being sexual beings.

Wearing a new top which showed a little cleavage when going out for the evening with my OH, my son (aged around 12) said, "you're not going out like that, are you?".

When I asked him what was wrong with the top, he said, well, you're my MUM! 🤣

DaisyAnneReturns

If this has happened because the BBC programme was misused it seems entirely solvable. It would need following up with schools.

Personally, I would need to know that this was the case before I will believe that is what happened. It perhaps seems unfair, but I doubt I will ever believe something where the start of the story comes from the gutter press. I think these papers cause immense pain and devastation and we don't yet seem to have any actual proof.

The "gutter" press. You seem to be maligning 31.3 million people who read something that doesn't meet with your approval.

The readers aren't all in the UK on the website, it's quite popular in the US and the paper sells 1.3 million on a Saturday which is its highest selling day

I guess that's a lot of people who think we live in "Broken Britain".

It has a high percentage of women reading too which is sad for a paper known to be incredibly misogynistic

I guess if you like something to get angry about, don't want all the facts and don't like progress it is a good choice

The ‘gutter press’ is anything other than the guardian.
Obviously.

Kandinsky

The ‘gutter press’ is anything other than the guardian.
Obviously.

The Guardian is just more subtle about its bias - but it has a narrative which you will discover , if you go against it in the comments section.

And, of course, there are not so many flaunters in the G...

The Telegraph is worth a read. We don't all just stick to the Guardian.

And reading about our domestic politics in the foreign press can be interesting, too.

I have discovered that usually the best place to read about these sorts of stories are the smaller local news outlets. They tend to have a more straightforward writing style and being locally involved, a more honest and accountable approach

Freya5

DaisyAnneReturns

If this has happened because the BBC programme was misused it seems entirely solvable. It would need following up with schools.

Personally, I would need to know that this was the case before I will believe that is what happened. It perhaps seems unfair, but I doubt I will ever believe something where the start of the story comes from the gutter press. I think these papers cause immense pain and devastation and we don't yet seem to have any actual proof.

The "gutter" press. You seem to be maligning 31.3 million people who read something that doesn't meet with your approval.

It has been reported widely.
The BBC announced that it has withdrawn that particular part of its programme.

You may think it is only reported in the gutter press whatever that may mean, but it is just as well the DM and other publications bring to public attention such worrying trends which some members of society think are suitable to be taught to young children, whether at school, through theatre production, wherever.
It is a determined and insidious campaign.

You are right about the Guardian's agenda, Dickens. I read it, and have done so for decades, but question the bias just as I do when I read other sources. I also read the Telegraph, and coming from my political persuasion I do find it comes from a very obviously Tory (and a particular type of middle class/older/white/traditional type of Tory) perspective. That's fine - I have no problem with people having different views - I just allow for that when coming to my own conclusions.

I only see the Sun or the Mail when there are links from somewhere like here, and I apply the same judgement, bearing in mind the types of publication they are. IMO the sort of 'you must be gullible to even read that' attitude is every bit as narrow-minded and lacking in nuance as the papers themselves. People can use judgement.

Also, there is nothing wrong with taking even the most outrageously biased (or even bigoted) headline as a starting point for a discussion. If a paper ran a story about banning the sale of milk to be kind to cows (^they haven't, and AFAIK there is absolutely no move towards making this happen^) there could still be a good discussion about animal cruelty, farming methods, veganism, the rights and wrongs of 'banning' things, and so on.

I think this is true of most threads on a range of subjects, but on this one we are discussing the level at which sex education should be taught to younger children. The spin put on the story by various papers isn't particularly relevant to the debate. This is a discussion site, not a press agency.

And yes, Callistemon. I agree with your post, too.

calling it a flower or a mini or any of the silly nonsense names I hear just won’t cut it…

And yet ‘bonus hole’ or ‘front hole’ from adults are quite acceptable and to be respected……….
Children need to know the correct terms for the parts of their bodies, but surely medics are used to hearing many euphemisms as we were informed in past threads?

Children are in need of knowledge about how their bodies will change and develop and be readied for puberty, and of course correct anatomical terms should be used. Where does the enlightenment of sexual practices stop though? Is every possible sexual practice to be imparted to them before they’re 16 or who decides which ones are featured and which ones won’t be? We answered all our children’s questions honestly but with total regard to their individual development and ability to absorb the answers. Blanket teaching of a whole class full of children cannot be so accommodating so I think some caution is required. As an aside I do hope they’re all being educated on the difference between a vulva and a vagina, too many, women included, seem totally ignorant of female anatomy 🙄

I don't care what pet names people choose to use but they need to know the real terms for things and a grown man taking his daughter to a doctor should be able to label these

Otherwise his 9 year old is way ahead of him despite being pulled out