Plant based eating and veganism

Vegans aren't "telling anyone else what to eat" - I am just explaining my own choices. Meat eaters tend to sneer and claim a vegan diet is unhealthy, unnatural etc. As we have said before there are cultural, religious and medical factors which explain eating choices, if someone chooses to eat meat products that is up to them, but a bit more awareness of how it is produced on an industrial scale maybe useful. It seems to me that many people don't wish to know that and like their meat in neat little plastic trays with no knowledge of where it comes from.

I'm not particularly bothered by what other people eat but I have to say, I don't recognise the picture painted here of cattle-rearing.

I live in rural Scotland and I can assure you that the fields abound with cows and their calves, particularly at this time of year, some not 100 yards from my house. The bulls are also kept busy in the traditional way, to judge from the scenes that play out in the fields as I drive past!

We have two cattle farms in my village and their animals seem to live a very happy life, with fields, food and shelter available at all times. A local dairy also sells milk from cows that are allowed to live a natural life, with their calves, a process which means they live longer, too. Local butchers here are open about the slaughtering methods.

I think being careful with what you buy is part of the solution. I buy organic eggs, for instance, because there's no guarantee that freerange eggs haven't been de-beaked. It's just a few pennies more on the shopping bill.

Much of Scotland is only suitable for grazing and the climate precludes growing a big variety of fruit and vegetables. If you're trying to eat as a locavore, as I do, it's quite a challenge!

When you say 'for moral reasons' I presume it means not eating animals. If it were not for the fact that we carnivores eat meat we would never see animals on fields and our farmers would be out of business. If it is for reasons of health that is a different matter, but don't forget the reason we have sharp teeth is because we are part of the food chain that is designed to eat meat. Generally I think veganism, in particular, is a fashionable fad.

I completely disagree, Aepgirl for the reasons cogently expressed by marlowlady.

UK vegetarians number between 7 and 11 percent of the population and vegans 1.05 though the popularity of the latter group is growing fast amongst the young.

This puts veganism into the extremist box and I would have to say that from what I have seen, read and experienced myself vegans present an alarming polarity with forceful and activist tendencies. The three I have known personally also exhibited signs of mental dysfunction. They were all young women and two were depressed.

Depression, probably linked to vitamin deprivation, seems to have a high correlation with Veganism.

I would have no issue with vegans were they to keep their views to themselves. After all, I am on a strict dieting regime but feel no need to proselytise even though many others could benefit from moderating and refining their intake. It is not pleasant ( or rational) to be bombarded with angry, emotive, subjective, poorly evidenced opinions.

Vegetarianism seems a perfectly acceptable choice to make for whatever reason, ethical, health or aesthetic while veganism is a step too far.

It would be nice if one could avoid certain items altogether, all the time, but it isn't always an option or budget friendly.

Having said that, I am not beholden to any one diet in particular. Wherever possible however, I choose grass fed/organic dairy products, eggs (from cage free vegan hens) 'all natural' poultry without hormones or antibiotics and grass fed beef or lamb. I buy lots of organic produce (free of herbicides, fungicides pesticides). I also take D3 supplements and avoid farm raised fish.

Hubby and I do a lot of baking too, especially bread and an occasional dessert ......it helps us to cut our sugar, salt and saturated fat intake to healthier levels.

Not perfect, but a little bit of care here and there does go a long way

The fact that rural Scotland has not succumbed to the industrial scale factory farms that abound in many parts of the western world is to its credit, though, much the worst examples of farming practices does go on behind closed doors. We are fortunate that we can transport food from different regions around the country, so areas which have bountiful arable land can sell their produce in areas which are more inhospitable. Salad does not have to stop at Scotland!
I am now labelled above as having a mental dysfunction as I choose not to eat animal products! I never knew.
Also - sharp teeth are useful for eating multitudes of crunchy , chewy foods,- nuts, seeds etc, not real evidence for having to eat meat. nearly all mammals have canine teeth, not all are meat eaters some of the sharpest belong to herbivores - hippos , gorillas for example.

Well I have bought ‘How not to die ‘ book and the cookery book to go with it.
I am loving the food, but when I delve any deeper online into plant based eating I feel like such a bad person for enjoying meat ?

Don't beat yourself up. Most people have been brought up in a culture where eating the bodies of other animals is seen as normal. I've been veggie for so long I no longer think of animals as food. Its what you get used to. If everyone cut down on meat a little it would be better for the environment, health and the animals.

It s funny that if you say you work for an animal charity everyone thinks you must be a real animal lover, but if you say you don't want to eat animals people think you are a weirdo and have some sort of mental dysfunction.

I live in the Swiss mountains- traditonal farming, cows with bull in the grass fields- no additives or anti-biotics, and local slaughter. And yet - male calves are most of the time taken at birth to be raised for veal or beef, and females taken to become milk (cheese, yogurt) producers.

It is brutal - even when done 'well'. Many farmer friends here and it is the way it is for them and most of them do treat their animal with respect and even kindness, in their own way. But listening to that cow crying and waling for hours last night, distraught looking for her calf she had just given birth to - was, and always is, heart rendering. know I could not take a calf ... knowing that would happen- sometimes twice a year per cow.

So veganism is perhaps a step too far for many- but it is totally logical and honest- and in modern day, if well researched- very healthy (as said, I am a meat eater- try to eat less and less and better quality- and I am a real cheese lover - our local cheeses are fabulous.)

Gerispringer Very true! And I get quite aggressive cross questioning from some people I meet about why I choose not to eat dead animals ??‍♀️

At one time I did not agree with veganism, however my son has been one for the last fifteen years. His GP says he is a perfect specimen. There are so many choices out there and vegan fish fingers are yummy. My 88year old mother swapped her turkey for a vegan roast this Christmas. A friends daughter said a prayer at the dinner table, ending with " Thank you for all animals that have given there life so we can eat them"
I try and have meat free days as often as I can.

Dear Gerispringer.
I agree with you one hundred percent. Well said.

Abuse of the vulnerable, without any necessity, can never be a matter of 'personal choice'. Using animals for food involves extreme abuse, and is, therefore, inexcusable for anyone wanting to live a life based on the values of basic decency.

I'm from a farming family. Mixed farming, back in the 40s. I stopped eating meat at the age of four after seeing wailing animals being loaded up for slaughter. No special veggie recipes back then, not to my mum's knowledge anyway. I was given the two veg and a lump of cheese. My schooldays were a nightmare when it came to lunchtimes, always having to repeat that I don't eat meat.
I've survived though, into my seventies without meat, although I admit to occasionally eating fish and have also tried a small slice of turkey at Christmas. It does feel alien to my palate though, the texture is unpleasant to me, I feel the body of the animal. However, I've always eaten eggs and dairy, as a child it was raw unpasteurised and still warm from the cow. No intensive farming. Our animals lived and grazed in the fields, but were brought in during the depths of winter and their diet supplemented with hay and silage. Most farms these days don't operate that way, they need to produce much higher yields, but smaller organic farms are growing in number and I still look for organic produce.
I realise that my childhood farm which was the norm then, just isn't practical now with the increased population, but if we all ate less meat, butter, cheese etc it would probably be better for us, the environment and the animals.

If I became vegan, I could live off my allotment I suppose.

Yes Hannah, I remember staying at my Uncles in Ely, right next to The Cattle Market, as a child. I hated seeing all the terrified animals being pushed on and off the lorries, and being there all day, having been separated from their families. And off to an awful end.

I've managed without meat (or quinoa!) quite happily for many years. Mentally I think I'm fine (though some would obviously dispute that)

One of the problems of vegetarianism is poverty. For instance oat 'milk' is delicious but expensive compared with ordinary cow milk or even organic cow milk.

I will try olive oil spread after reading these comments.

Muscle tissue is now being made in a laboratory and will be commercially available some time.

Is there a website or some reliable source of info that informs about how much protein a person needs?

Yesterday I made quite a decent tinned- kidney bean stew with potatoes onions etc etc and put eight portions in the freezer. Does flatulence eventually stop?

www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/lab-grown-meat-is-in-your-future-and-it-may-be-healthier-than-the-real-stuff/2016/05/02/aa893f34-e630-11e5-a6f3-21ccdbc5f74e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.37fea3f0b8d7

Meat grown artificially instead of on other animals.

I have been vegetarian for around 38 years. I am rarely ill...I never get colds. I am close to being vegan. Have to say I am having trouble finding a good vegan cheese so do eat a little cheese and the odd egg. Mind you, it has been been a month since I had a whole egg... Quorn is not vegan and I do have that. I take a suppliment most days so that I get B12 and D. I will work on at least finding a good vegan soft cheese to put in my favourite soup when I make it. If I can do that I know I will be close to being vegan. Finding something to replace quorn will be difficut though...

the cow that had the calf 2 days ago was separated from the herd and taken away today- as I was out in the back meadow- no idea what her fate will be, and the thanks for her valiant efforts.

Our DD1 became a vegetarian aged 15- after we were invited by a cousin to be part of the giving birth by their pet Guerney. It was very moving- the cow did all the panting and breathing, as we are taught to do at pre-natal classes- and then came to rub her head and lay it on the shoulder of my cousin's wife- and then did the same with DD1- whom she had never met. When the calf was born- DD1 was asked to name it- and she called it 'Button' - and the next morning she said- I'll never eat meat again. It caused her all sorts of problems, as she absolutely loved meat (unlike most vegetarians or vegans I know) - and she was often torn.

We learnt together how to ensure she would get all the proper nutrients, choosing ingredients and cooking properly.

What is not vegan in Quorn? I always thought it was.

Some Quorn is vegan others use milk in the making

That's quite sneaky!