Norway Covid Pfizer Vaccine Deaths

Dying of COVID is a particularly horrible way to die, so I think we have to leave it up to the medical professionals to decide on an individual basis what’s right for people in nursing homes, many of whom will die of COVID without the vaccination. The BMJ article is a very balanced perspective I think, and probably worth reading that rather than the media reports. Every medication has adverse effects on some people, and there’s nothing yet to indicate that this is anything to worry about, fundamentally that’s the current status of this ‘news’.

More than 20 000 doses of the vaccine have been administered over the past few weeks in Norway and around 400 deaths normally occur among care home residents every week.
23 in over 20,000 is about one in 1,000.

Frequency of adverse drug reactions(CIOMS)
•Very common = more than 1/10
•Common (frequent) = less than 1/10 but more than 1/100
•Uncommon (infrequent) = less than 1/100 but more than 1/1000
•Rare = less than 1/1000 but more than 1/10000
•Very rare = less than 1/10000
So one in 1000 is stated correctly as "rare"

The agency has investigated 13 of the deaths so far and concluded that common adverse reactions of mRNA vaccines, such as fever, nausea, and diarrhoea, may have contributed to fatal outcomes in some of the frail patients.
www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149

It appears, as others have said, that the Norwegians who died were extremely sick and frail.

Whether the vaccine hastened their demise is not certain but what is certain is that it will be disastrous if scaremongering stories like this put too many people off having the vaccine.

Taking your info Elegran this is then Uncommon (infrequent) = less than 1/100 but more than 1/1000 as it's around one in 870.

This particular vaccine wasn't tested in people over 85, apparently.
Definitely not saying not to have it, and not personally bothered about it. Just adding to the discussion, I hope.

Very early on in the vaccine rollout there was a thread about residents not being given the vaccine because those with their POA had not given permission.
I was alone, I believe, in saying that I would find it difficult to make such a decision on behalf of someone else.

NotSpaghetti The article said "More than 20 000 doses of the vaccine have been administered over the past few weeks in Norway" I was taking that as an estimate of 23,000, for ease of calculation, as it wasn't an accurate figure.

Ok. Fair enough Elegran. I thought you knew.
Sorry.
I read earlier today that there were 29 deaths under investigation now including some in their 70s. Didn't notice the number of vaccines given though to be honest.
Small numbers have probably had death hastened... many lives probably saved.

It's a numbers thing. Only important if it's someone you love and presumably everyone in Norway has a choice, as here. I did spend 10 mins to see what our figures were but apparently we will release our data "in due course".

It has me spooked because nausea and diarrhoea are not pleasant and not the usual sort of side effect you would expect from a vaccine. It is not available here because the government is waiting to see what the results will be and at first I thought they were just being slack. Now I am wondering if they are,in fact, right.

If I had read this report yesterday before walking down to our Civic Hall to receive my first dose of vaccine, would I have put my coat on and gone out? Yes, I'm quite sure I would. I accept the report in the BMJ, rather than the scaremongering press headlines. I may be ..... well, elderly, but nobody would describe me as 'frail'. As it is, I woke up this morning with a slightly sore arm, but no side effects. If you have received an invitation to have the vaccine and if you are worried, try ringing or emailing your GP, though you may not get a quick response - she may be too busy administering the vaccine!

Their was a poignant article in The Times by Melanie Reid saying how terrified she as a quadriplegic, is of catching covid, given that even turning her over in bed to prevent bed sores etc takes expertise. How would she cope if her husband caught it etc. It made me think of people with lesser mobility problems, terminal illnesses etc. And how complicated the whole covid situation is on so many levels. Old, frail people could forgo having the vaccine if everyone around them is vaccinated but what happens if they have to go to hospital (which is what happened to my dear friend who either caught covid in hospital or in the care home she was sent to recuperate in). Every solution seems to throw up moral dilemmas or problems of one kind or another.

My mother-in-law, who is lovely is 96. She has just had a message that she can (at last!) have her first Pfizer vaccine at the end of next week. She has an appointment for Friday.

She is elderly, yes, but not frail so I don't feel it's an issue and, more to the point, nor does she.

nanna8

It has me spooked because nausea and diarrhoea are not pleasant and not the usual sort of side effect you would expect from a vaccine. It is not available here because the government is waiting to see what the results will be and at first I thought they were just being slack. Now I am wondering if they are,in fact, right.

Were the people who died all living in the same area?
Did someone pass on a norovirus to them?
Was it nothing to do with the vaccine?
There are a lot of questions

The symptoms were what was found in the review of the first 13 patients in Norway, out of the total of 23 who died, from the 20,000 vaccinated there so far. These patients weren’t in one home, they were out of the total. The BMJ article is the one to read because the press are hyping this up way beyond the facts.

The Norwegian deaths — all patients who had weeks or months to live — were associated with fever, nausea and diarrhoea. These are relatively common short-lived ­effects of vaccination and not harmful in younger, fitter people.
www.theaustralian.com.au/science/federal-government-seeks-information-from-norway-after-pfizer-vaccine-deaths-in-the-elderly/news-story/6d69bd9e6be610bc890f5810d4b65e5d

and HSE issues new advice on Covid-19 vaccine for very frail elderly who have serious disease after a number of deaths in Norway
"^Health staff who are administering the Covid-19 vaccine in long-term care settings across the country have been told it is not appropriate to give it to residents whose duration of life may be shorter than the length of time it will take for the jab to work.^

The advice is being issued by HSE chief clinical officer Dr Colm Henry following 23 deaths of a number of very frail elderly patients in Norway after getting the Covid-19 vaccine.

In a letter to clinicians Dr Henry said: “Given that the benefit from vaccination begins only about 10–14 days following the first dose and full protection is not achieved until 7-14 days following the second dose of vaccine currently in use, it is not appropriate to vaccinate people if their expected duration of life is less than that for the vaccine to take effect and if, in that context, their overall care is focused on comfort and dignity.”

He said that to date well over 10 million Covid-19 vaccines have been administered globally, with vaccination programmes prioritising those at high risk, including older people.

“All events reported as possible side effects following vaccination are being closely monitored. It is important to note that fatalities will occur from natural causes or background illnesses, and will continue to do so, during any vaccination campaign.”
www.independent.ie/news/hse-issues-new-advice-on-covid-19-vaccine-for-very-frail-elderly-who-have-serious-disease-after-a-number-of-deaths-in-norway-39978047.html

More than 20,000 had been vaccinated. I wish the figure was more accurate - you could say that anything from 20,001 upwards is "more than 20,000". It could be just over it or a very much larger number.

The thing is that people aren't being told, well, one of the things people aren't being told, is: you need to be in TIP TOP condition before going to a Vaccine center because it will be FULL of germs.

You also need to stop drinking alcohol for two weeks beforehand. There are other things too that we are not being told... Research needs to be done and we need to make sure that we are all getting ourselves into the tip top condition before trotting down to the vaccination centre.

Here in the UK, injections are being done by volunteers. Perhaps the Norway ones were done wrong, the vaccine was faulty or all died from a pulmonary embolism because staff weren't medically trained?

I'm surprised we aren't recruiting vets and dentists to help out. They'd have the experience not to give you a pulmonary embolism.

Pretty much nothing in what you posted is true Lavazza.

As you don’t get two weeks notice for your vaccination how would you stop drinking alcohol for two weeks?

My brother in law is most certainly not in tip top condition and he’s had a jab.

Where did you get all this from Lavazza?

Really, Lavazza? That is a very general and damning statement. Those who have told us on here that they have applied to be vaccinators are ex-medics. And are you saying that GPs surgeries are being staffed by untrained amateurs?

What makes you think think that Norwegian vaccinators are so incompetent that they give people pulmonary embolisms? Or that Norwegian Norwegian medics are not able to distinguish the results of frail patients with nausea and diarrhea with those suffering pulmonary embolisms?

How disappointing Lavazza to read unsubstantiated twaddle, there is an NHS recruitment drive out for all those with some medical training, including vets and dentists. There are untrained volunteers marshalling, admin and providing lifts. The no alcohol is also a myth, I can’t do links, but read New Scientist.

My 88y old stepfather came to us for his dinner today. He had his first Astra Zeneca jab yesterday morning. Said he slept like a top last night. He asked the doctor at the health centre about alcohol (he enjoys a wee dram around 4pm every day). The doctor reassured him at that level there was no concern.

He enjoyed a full plate of roast chicken dinner, had his whisky at was driven home at 5pm. He’s just rung me to say he’s contentedly watching the snooker now.

Gives me hope anyway.

Where on earth did you read that Lavazza?

Some of the volunteers are vets and dentists.

I did read somewhere that heavy drinkers were told that they should cut down as much as possible until after they had been vaccinated, can't remember why though.