Are White British Men somehow “disadvantaged”

When you’re on the starting line with your expensive trainers and your coach encouraging you, it’s easy to feel you’ve done it without any help and that it would be patronising to offer help to anyone

The NAO graduation scheme does have everyone competing from the same starting line. Nobody is inferior or superior.

This is an internship scheme, for about 6 weeks I think, over the summer, to find out more about the NAO. This helps minority group develop insight into opportunities available, ie to see the possibility of the starting line to then compete at the same starting line as all other applicants. I can't see anything patronising about that.

LemonJam I think it used to be 6 weeks.
I could be wrong.

I am sure they do believe that, and they may be right, they also may be wrong. Organisations chock full of lawyers failed to follow the equality act with regard to single sex spaces.

An interesting little snippet- in 2023 when she was 21 (so she's 24 now), when Sophie Corcoran was a student and member of the young Conservatives, she was a contestant in a TV reality programme Rise and Fall on Channel 4.

The sixteen contestants were divided into 'Rulers' and 'Grafters'. The rulers lived in a luxury pent house and the grafters lived in the basement. Each episode the rulers voted one of their group out and the grafters had a chance to move up to the pent house to join them. The eventual winner was chosen from the Rulers to win the £100,000 prize pot.

Sophie I understand remained in the basement throughout. Perhaps she was traumatised by the experience? 😉😂

There was a stage when reality tv reached a pinnacle of awfulness, I didn't see it but that sounds like grim viewing, channel 5 is usually the purveyor of that kind of thing.

MOnica
i think much of the discrimination and special treatment we give people now etc etc.
I think you know you’re not alone in thinking that thinking.
I volunteer with a retired nurse from Nigeria.
She gets very angry at any government who thinks she’s so helpless and vulnerable because she’s black.
I have asked her if this is a widespread feeling her answer is: only those who have no pride in themselves and believe it when politicians tell them they need their protection.

Tuliptree

Giving someone a step ladder to stand on so they can reach the good on the shelf that their taller friend can reach without help because they’re taller is not patronising. The extra help I got with travel expenses that I received so I could get to my work place which my able bodied colleagues didn’t need wasn’t patronising.

I was not dealing with practical aids to working for the disaabled. I was talking narrowly about people being able to compete on a skills and competence level and not being favoured or not because of colour or cultural practices.

Help getting disabled people into work is an entirely different subject.

As the mother of two sons I certainly believe white British men are disadvantaged. They have often missed out on jobs and opportunities because they don't tick enough boxes.

When my son was at secondary school none of the boys seemed interested in education. This was in the 90s in Cornwall and 99.9% of the pupils were whit British. AS far as he and his friends were concerned school was definitely not cool, all their fathers had managed to get by without any qualifications and they couldn't see the point. Meanwhile most of the girls were working hard and had their eyes on some sort of further education. My son started doing A levels but dropped out after a term and started an NVQ catering course. Since then he has had various minimum wage jobs and on the odd occasions when someone has suggested him for a management position he has recoiled in horror, He doesn't want to join "then"! He's nearly 50 now and still doesn't seem to have grasped that you can't scrape by today like his father and I did.

petra

MOnica
i think much of the discrimination and special treatment we give people now etc etc.
I think you know you’re not alone in thinking that thinking.
I volunteer with a retired nurse from Nigeria.
She gets very angry at any government who thinks she’s so helpless and vulnerable because she’s black.
I have asked her if this is a widespread feeling her answer is: only those who have no pride in themselves and believe it when politicians tell them they need their protection.

And I have friends at the gym who tell very different stories growing up in the UK and trying to get into various work situations.

Nursing is probably an area where there is the least discrimination, look at our NHS staff.

We cant generalise from any one person, one has to consider a group as a whole when it comes to social planning.

Funny that people object to disadvantaged groups getting extra help but don't mind rich people's kids having private education, extra coaching and benefiting in lots of ways throughout their whole life but 6 weeks of paid internship makes them shout about it being unfair.

Vintagewhine

Funny that people object to disadvantaged groups getting extra help but don't mind rich people's kids having private education, extra coaching and benefiting in lots of ways throughout their whole life but 6 weeks of paid internship makes them shout about it being unfair.

The problem is that there will never be an absolutely equal playing field, and I do think people exaggerate how far private education benefits the majority of children who get it. Certainly certain schools give some ex-pupils an advantage in certain fields, but beyond that I am less sure.

If you discriminate against privately educated children, would you discriminate against children from poorer backgrounds who because they are/were clever, passed the 11 plus then do well and get to university when it was free or now, get into really top state secondary schools? In the 1960s I went to a northern technical university, the majority of my fellow students were northern working class lads, and many have done very well since.

Or working class children whose parents do all they can to encourage them to get a good education and use every possible opportunity to bring their children up in a culturally enriched home. Both DH and I come from such a background.

Fallingstar

Cossy

Padstow A big huge thank you, as your post really made laugh out loud! I love your choice of words and have to agree wholeheartedly with your rhetoric.

Yes I must second that 👏🏽👏🏽

As so many were applauding Padstow maybe you can suggest a remedy to solve why do many feel so disadvantaged

Tuliptree, I think that your analogy of the person at the race starting line is an excellent one.

I'm not suggesting discrimination merely pointing out double standards.

Chocolatelovinggran

Tuliptree, I think that your analogy of the person at the race starting line is an excellent one.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJAgPF5FNTQ

The above link is to a video I saw some years ago which uses a race analogy to explain inequality. It's from the US but worth watching

snoopy57

I should say so, we should be at the top of society

Why?

Bukkie

As the mother of two sons I certainly believe white British men are disadvantaged. They have often missed out on jobs and opportunities because they don't tick enough boxes.

Also mother of an adult son (and daughter).
Is it possible that other candidates were more suited to the roles?

Basgetti

Bukkie

As the mother of two sons I certainly believe white British men are disadvantaged. They have often missed out on jobs and opportunities because they don't tick enough boxes.

Also mother of an adult son (and daughter).
Is it possible that other candidates were more suited to the roles?

I think it also depends what careers they want to get into. Some carees are very popular, some have a uniculture membership and need to become more inclusive.

Other careers are over subscribed.

DS wanted to be an academic, but there is immense competition for permanent jobs in academia. For the first 15 or more years of his, now successful career he was moving from one temporary lectureship to another.

He was 40 before he finally got tenure, which is the academic term for a permanent full time job teaching.

Indeed, MOnica. Our youngest, first class degree in his specialism, is still working in hospitality as he chases roles. Our eldest, on the other hand, again good degree, has had no difficulty in securing roles in a profession where there is an huge shortage of qualified staff.
Looking back, we probably ought to have encouraged our youngest to study something less specialist but after having given up so much freedom for his compromised dad during Covid, we felt he deserved to follow his wish.

Deedaa

My middle grandson is having a great time at an all boys state grammar school. Many of the boys are Indian or Chinese and come from families who are very focused on education and they are mostly high achievers. The school is also very keen on sports - and the sports are very competitive, which my grandson loves. When I spent a day there I found myself thinking how nice it was not having any girls messing things up. He does mix with a lot of girls at his drama classes at the weekend,

In what way do girls ‘mess things up’.

Basgetti Even today, it is best to study a subject you really enjoy and, therefore do well in, than be sensible and do something that does not engross you and do less well.

This is the mistake I made and, while my first degree, and the professional MSc I did later gave me a good career.

The subject that I should have done has been my main leisure interest for more years than I can count. I have done a number of extra-mural courses and collected various ualification and I have always done better in these than I did in my first degree.

There are so many 'add-on' diplomas, masters degrees etc available today, on and off line, could he channel his passion sideways into something, connected with his degree tangentially?

My MA is not related to my undergraduate degree and as regards careers, I have done many things unrelated to either - but still satisfying and worthwhile.

Re the anecdotal evidence of boys from the families of Gransnetters -
It also depends how you present at interview I think... My oldest son was able to walk into anything it seems to me. He always moved on into something more exciting or much better paid.. or both.
My youngest - not really. He is less driven but very loyal.

They all need to find their own way.

NotSpaghetti They all need to find their own way but many these days cannot hot even start to find their own way because they are unable to get a job at all in their chosen or other profession.