Ignorance is no excuse

No he liked his job. Everyone said when he fed a blind man how come he doesn't get his food all down his clothes? Because my son was patient and took his time and the others didn't

Think about running a care home. To begin with there is the cost of the premises, and the costs of running them, business rates, heating bills are enormous, insurance, matntaining it and all the euipment in it, food, laundry.

Then there are staff. When DH and I were visiting a relatve they had a fire drill. Afterwards staff gathered in the hall for debriefing. There the manager and deputy, clerk, cleaners, laundresses, cooks, gardener, maintenance man. Then there were all the staff not working at the time. DH and I reckoned there was the euivalent of one full time member of staff for every resident.

Compare the cost with a hotel room, that more likely or not will be around £100 a night with breakfast, but add on the cost of all the things a care home provides, that a hotel doesn't and Care home costs are not unreasonable they are the cost of providingall they do at today's prices.

I have seen family and friends in nearly a dozen carehomes over the years. Of course there are the really cheap ones, that local councils who want everything for nothing like, but for a decent care home, they do not sack carers when they reach 18. Most of the ones I have visited have had staff of all ages and many nationalities, the standard of care has been good and the resident is well content with their care. One relative told me he had never been happier in his life.

M0nica

Think about running a care home. To begin with there is the cost of the premises, and the costs of running them, business rates, heating bills are enormous, insurance, matntaining it and all the euipment in it, food, laundry.

Then there are staff. When DH and I were visiting a relatve they had a fire drill. Afterwards staff gathered in the hall for debriefing. There the manager and deputy, clerk, cleaners, laundresses, cooks, gardener, maintenance man. Then there were all the staff not working at the time. DH and I reckoned there was the euivalent of one full time member of staff for every resident.

Compare the cost with a hotel room, that more likely or not will be around £100 a night with breakfast, but add on the cost of all the things a care home provides, that a hotel doesn't and Care home costs are not unreasonable they are the cost of providingall they do at today's prices.

I have seen family and friends in nearly a dozen carehomes over the years. Of course there are the really cheap ones, that local councils who want everything for nothing like, but for a decent care home, they do not sack carers when they reach 18. Most of the ones I have visited have had staff of all ages and many nationalities, the standard of care has been good and the resident is well content with their care. One relative told me he had never been happier in his life.

We are extremely happy with the care home my MiL is in, it is part of a large group, my dear Aunt was in another of their homes and her children were very happy with her care and surroundings.

My Aunt was self-funding and my MiL is council funded, the only difference was the sizes of their rooms.

The level of care, the food, the trips etc were very good, carers are excellent and some pretty mature.

Magenta8

I know from personal experience that inheritance tax and paying for care take a huge whack out of any money your parents want to pass on. The more you earn and save for the future the more "They" take. Being careful with your money is not rewarded when it comes to inheritance.

Exactly so!

What annoys me is how 'they'( i expect means Gov't?) are taking tax on pensions,when these elderly folks have already paid the tax when they were working!? And i'm not even a pensioner yet.

I own my (ex-council/HA) little house thanks mostly to Aged Aunt leaving me a share of her assets when she died - in her own bed in her own house. She was determined not to end her days anywhere else if possible. Towards the end, aged 95, in addition to carers getting her up and into bed, friends and myself (the only local family member) were calling up to four times a day, taking food and providing support.

She had at one time looked forward to going into a local Care Home, (a not for profit establishment) but six weeks recovering from a broken wrist persuaded her otherwise. The place was full of (in her words) "Ga-ga old people, and if I stay I too will go ga-ga". She was then 90.

The home is still "not for profit" but the fees are truly horrendous, although less than the other local Care Homes. If any degree of nursing care is required, the weekly cost is more than my monthly net income - and I get considerably more than many Pensioners. I have no problem with selling up to fund care but the value of my house would be eaten up so quickly. Luckily my girls never expected me to have anything to leave them and accept that that might still end up being true. BUT, it is an incentive for them to enable me to remain in my own familiar surroundings as long as possible, so not all bad!

Magenta8

If I felt that more than an infinitesimal amount of the large chunk of money taken by "Them" in IHT was going to be spent on providing welfare for those in need I would not feel any resentment.

I agree. HMCE are currently dibbling their fingers into my late dad’s accounts and taking an inordinate amount of money out.
I’ve never thought to ask where it goes, but I wish it could be used to help the homeless and those in great need as then I’d feel better about it.

Whingey

Woman in sheltered housing was sent there by the council and paid nothing.Drank a bottle of gin every day and stole things from the lounge 😨

Here there is a huge disconnect between care homes that you pay for and those you do not. I would not put my dog in some

On the other hand, if you've earned a good living and banked the cash, bought a big house & holidays abroad plus all the trimmings, why would you expect to get free care when you've been quite happy to spend on everything else? It's a bit like a pension pot which you pay into all your working life in preparation for retirement - who knows what might happen when you get there. Does anyone save up for the healthcare they might need, if they can afford to?

I remember when I was a teen, my mum looked after her mum who lived alone, it wore her down but she saw it as her duty - she had 3 brothers who lived locally but they did nothing to help, nor did their wives, my dad picked up all the slack to help my mum. There was no inheritance but they did it anyway.

Too much focus on inheritance these days, parents are precious but not to everyone. I lost both mine in their 50s when I was early 20s - their deaths have affected us ever since - there is no amount of inheritance that could compensate for their loss even 40 years on. I would have gladly swopped my inheritance to see them both live into their 70s/80s and leave nothing.

Grantanow. how do you know they are undeserving? I worked hard all my live, but never had a job which gave me a decent pension. I didn’t think about it when young, but I guarantee a lot of the people you think are undeserving are like me and worked just as hard as you and a lot of others. do you believe we wouldn’t prefer a decent pension? Most of us would.

Some of the poor are undeserving? Why? And why aren't some wealthy people undeserving? Do you dislike poor people in general or do you just single out the ones you decide are the right kind of poor?

Who are 'they'? And why should anyone tell you what you're entitled to? Surely we can still take personal responsibility for our lives?
And I think it's fair to pay for your own care if you can, why should the government pay so you can leave your house/money to your kids?
We have a rapidly aging population, how on earth can they all be supported and given care for free? Who will pay the staff and fees? In an ideal world it would be free but that's not realistic or possible, do the people so against using their own money realise that the costs of care will double from 2022 costs of £22 billion to £40 billion by 2040? Or that the aging population is growing faster than the working age population, which means less taxes and income to pay for the elderly?
We're living longer and a consequence of that will be increased care costs, I really don't understand why anyone thinks it should be free if you have the money to pay yourself, it's not free in any other country. Even countries that have high standards of care for the elderly still cost, either via much higher taxes than we pay or mandatory elderly care insurance paid throughout their working lives.
And then there is the fact that state funded care homes are often rated much lower than homes that have mostly self funded residents, that self funders can choose the care home and other than waiting lists can move in more or less immediately and state funded care homes are allocated, the resident has no choice and there are often much longer waiting lists, less staff and worse quality of care.

So your friend believed they shouldn't have to pay for their food or accommodation because someone else had no pension or income?
Didn't you point out to them that if they were living in their own home they'd have to pay for everything, food, bills, council tax?

Well that's the only solution it seems. If you can't pay for it then you should be left to die at home, or that the government should find billions to pay for everyone, although that would triple the bill and make it the highest government bill of all. That means everyone else would suffer because there'd be no money left.

I don't understand how it's penalising people, surely working hard all your life includes paying for your old age.. So why should people be able to save for old age and have money to go on holidays, do whatever they want but not include paying for care when it's needed?

If any degree of nursing care is called for, in a home that accepts state-funded residents, then what I was told is that the home claims (not sure from NHS or council) for the nursing supplement. Certainly with my elderly relative (5 years ago) although she needed nursing-level care from admission, we only paid the basic residential fee.
The matron told me they would apply for the nursing care supplement, & not to worry about it, although the relative was self-funding.

Nannan2

What annoys me is how 'they'( i expect means Gov't?) are taking tax on pensions,when these elderly folks have already paid the tax when they were working!? And i'm not even a pensioner yet.

Payments into pensions are not taxed. Pension contributionsts are deducted from income before tax is calculated.

I’m afraid I’m another of the ‘personal experience —absolutely true’ posters.
Also the recent publicity about families on benefit getting reduced or free admission to attractions eg Tower of London, which I remember cost us an arm& leg back in the 90s.
Something must be done, I hope the country changes soon.

Faxgran

I’m afraid I’m another of the ‘personal experience —absolutely true’ posters.
Also the recent publicity about families on benefit getting reduced or free admission to attractions eg Tower of London, which I remember cost us an arm& leg back in the 90s.
Something must be done, I hope the country changes soon.

At the risk of being “boring” may I remind you that currently almost 50% of families claiming Universal Credit have at least one parent in low income employment, often two. Another fairly large percentage will be unable to work due to their own health/disabilities or because they are full time unpaid carers for a disabled person.

There are still far too many people scraping by on low incomes, where would we be without our care home staff, cleaners, shop assistants, teaching assistants, health-care assistants, street cleaners, dustbin-workers, all those low paid clerical and admin staff at the very bottom of the chain, so many people aren’t paid a “living wage” and are topped up by the government, ironically even some government departmental staff qualify for Universal Credit payments.

What about those who are mentally and physically disable and require 1-2-1 care? They too live on Universal Credit, why shouldn’t they be able to visit our historical places and leisure facilities?

There are no “separate” benefits available for people anymore to differentiate between those too ill to work, those too disabled too work, those caring for people and those actually in work but on low incomes, and finally those who should work but currently not in work or education. That’s why is called “universal credit”, it means if you were born with a life limiting condition you have to make a claim to the same “universal” benefit as someone who is a full time care, or simply unemployed through a myriad of reasons.

So so easy to judge!

Smileless2012

Sorry, but I don't understand the 'it isn't fair' point of view; what's the alternative, that those who can't afford care don't receive any?

If no one who can afford to pay does so, there wouldn't be care for the vast majority of those who need it.

My m.i.l.'s bungalow was sold to pay for her care. It bothered her but not Mr. S. and his siblings who were thankful she could go to the home of her choice and stay there until she died.

This. ☝️

Dreadwitch Surely we can still take personal responsibility for our lives?
I think it's fair to pay for your own care if you can, why should the government pay so you can leave your house/money to your kids?

Of course we should all pay for our own care, if possible.

Leaving to our children is not responsibility of others.

I wonder about the future of Inheritance Tax. I understand the statistics of 5% of estates paying this, but surely the percentage will increase year on year, if the threshold remains unchanged.
I am single, so the tax- free part of my estate is £550,000. My modest semi in the Southeast is nearly that, now.
Let me state, clearly, that I have no issue with my children paying this tax, nor with me self funding any care I might need. However, the pegging of IHT with no rises will bring more and more single people into this group. It is less a problem for couples, of course, as their allowance is £1 million.

I have no problem with those in need receiving benefits, or whatever is available. Provided of course they really do need it.

However, I don't understand those saying that people shouldn't inherit sums of money or property because they don't deserve "it" or because they haven't worked for "it". The recipients of state benefits haven't worked for "it" (the heir's inheritance) either, certainly no more so than those receiving the inheritance.

If the government allowed those leaving large sums to actually decide where their money would be spent, that might be a different matter. But currently, attempts to avoid inheritance tax wherever possible will continue because people do not agree with their assets being doled out to unworthy causes.

Well, that makes them scroungers then, surely?
If people are going to great lengths to avoid paying for their care, then thats what they are, regardless of their reasons.

Those who do not have any money cannot pay, so the state pays for them and as for this belief that anyone who doesn't have savings in old age has none because they have spent it all on cruises, holidays and extravagent living, all I can say is that for 10 years I was a volunteer Home Advisor for Age Concern (as was). In that time I must have done benefit and other claims for people in need of help. In ten years, and I would have had hundreds of clients of which, only 2 couples fell into the 'had the money but spent it' category and neither of them led the high life they were just people who, good jobs and good salaries regardless, were financially just feckless. Money just went through their fingures and they did not know where it had gone. Certainly not on holiday, cruises cars etc.

As I said those being paid for are being paid for because they have no money. The reason they have no money is because they never eaned enough to accumulate any savings in the first place or their savings had been eaten up by personal and family catastrophes.+++