What is a Patriot and what does it mean to you?

Casdon

I’m glad Tommy Robinson didn’t choose the Union Jack, we don’t want him associated with us in Wales, and I doubt the Scots or Northern Irish do either. I feel sorry for the English that the St George’s flag is so misused.

At least Wales would have been all right if he had because there's no part of the Welsh flag on the Union Flag.

I’m glad Tommy Robinson didn’t choose the Union Jack, we don’t want him associated with us in Wales, and I doubt the Scots or Northern Irish do either. I feel sorry for the English that the St George’s flag is so misused.

Wyllow3

yogitree

I agree with M0nica, HousePlantQueen and Babs03. Other than that, my first thought, sadly, was a missile!

This, more or less.

I don't feel the word "Patriot" means what it once did, which is feeling loyal to ones country whatever ones political views, in both the USA and the Uk its being used like a weapon as in this or that POV is more "patriotic" and you are a traitor to believe differently.

I am curious about one thing tho, why did/do those who for example agree with Tommy Robinson choose the England flag not the UK flag as a symbol of loyalty?

You could ask why do the Scots fly the Saltire , instead of the UK flag. These islands made up of different countries, each entitled to fly the flag of birth country that they chose.

Doodledog

I am very pleased to be British, and largely share 'British values' of tolerance, inclusivity, politeness etc. I even queue without moaning . I feel very lucky to have been born here, and not somewhere like Afghanistan, for instance.

Am I 'proud' of being British? No, how can we be proud to have been born somewhere - our place of birth is entirely random. Pride is a deadly sin, in any case, so people being proud of their pride in their country just doesn't add up for me.

I wouldn't be much good at combat-style fighting, but I fight (peacefully) in other ways for what I believe to be right. Not because 'my country' is involved, as so much depends on who is claiming to be representing us, but because I don't think we should expect other people to do things and then moan about the results when we haven't bothered ourselves. We all have a stake in society, so should all make an effort to make the UK the place we want it to be. I think it is unpatriotic to expect a free ride in life - a country is only as good as the sum of its citizens' efforts.

If there were a war or invasion, I like to think that I would do what I could to help to resist, though.

The word 'Patriotism' suggests blind adherence to what others tell us is 'British', which is not an admirable thing, I think. How can it be patriotic to support something when it is in fashion (because it is currently 'the British way'), and not support it when times change? 'British values' used to include the idea that slavery was acceptable and that there was a racial hierarchy, for instance. A patriot would have been someone who was prepared to fight for things like that. Now (thankfully) things have changed, and with them those values have reversed, so a patriot would be someone with very different views. How can the concept of 'patriotism' mean anything when it shifts so much?

Thank you, I was trying to put this into words, and you have done it so much better than I ever could.

Doodledog

I am very pleased to be British, and largely share 'British values' of tolerance, inclusivity, politeness etc. I even queue without moaning . I feel very lucky to have been born here, and not somewhere like Afghanistan, for instance.

Am I 'proud' of being British? No, how can we be proud to have been born somewhere - our place of birth is entirely random. Pride is a deadly sin, in any case, so people being proud of their pride in their country just doesn't add up for me.

I wouldn't be much good at combat-style fighting, but I fight (peacefully) in other ways for what I believe to be right. Not because 'my country' is involved, as so much depends on who is claiming to be representing us, but because I don't think we should expect other people to do things and then moan about the results when we haven't bothered ourselves. We all have a stake in society, so should all make an effort to make the UK the place we want it to be. I think it is unpatriotic to expect a free ride in life - a country is only as good as the sum of its citizens' efforts.

If there were a war or invasion, I like to think that I would do what I could to help to resist, though.

The word 'Patriotism' suggests blind adherence to what others tell us is 'British', which is not an admirable thing, I think. How can it be patriotic to support something when it is in fashion (because it is currently 'the British way'), and not support it when times change? 'British values' used to include the idea that slavery was acceptable and that there was a racial hierarchy, for instance. A patriot would have been someone who was prepared to fight for things like that. Now (thankfully) things have changed, and with them those values have reversed, so a patriot would be someone with very different views. How can the concept of 'patriotism' mean anything when it shifts so much?

👍👏👏👏👏👏

yogitree

I agree with M0nica, HousePlantQueen and Babs03. Other than that, my first thought, sadly, was a missile!

This, more or less.

I don't feel the word "Patriot" means what it once did, which is feeling loyal to ones country whatever ones political views, in both the USA and the Uk its being used like a weapon as in this or that POV is more "patriotic" and you are a traitor to believe differently.

I am curious about one thing tho, why did/do those who for example agree with Tommy Robinson choose the England flag not the UK flag as a symbol of loyalty?

I agree with M0nica, HousePlantQueen and Babs03. Other than that, my first thought, sadly, was a missile!

Cossy

Sago

We live in a diverse community in a small conservation area on the outskirts of a City.

I see as I walk around our Avenues Pride, Palestinian and Ukrainian flags.

I bet if I flew a St George’s Cross the local Facebook page would have me down as a racist bigot.

No, they wouldn’t, however, much better to fly the Union Jack.

Sadly, some have “hijacked” the English flag for their own agendas.

Would you advise the other nations in the UK to fly the Union Flag rather than their individual flags?
Why should the cross of St George be allowed to be hijacked by one odious section, surely it should be reclaimed by the good majority?

As for being labelled a traitor for voting remain I voted that way because however imperfect the EU is I thought it was best for the country to remain a member. Didn't those that voted leave do so because they thought that was best for the country? I disagree with them but would never resort to labelling them traitors, that's just silly and offensive.

Oreo

Casdon

Sago

We live in a diverse community in a small conservation area on the outskirts of a City.

I see as I walk around our Avenues Pride, Palestinian and Ukrainian flags.

I bet if I flew a St George’s Cross the local Facebook page would have me down as a racist bigot.

Wouldn’t that be because it’s not custom and practice to fly your country’s flag in your garden if you live there? We don’t do that in Wales, and I’m sure the Scots don’t either, but I think if you’re a foreigner in a new land you are more likely to want to do so to support your own country if it’s at war, as both Ukraine and Palestine are.

I have seen quite a few Welsh flags in Welsh gardens, no reason for them not to of course.
I don’t believe it’s the other nations frowning on English flags flown in England but some English who assume you must be right wing if you do so.

I live in Wales, and I haven’t, unless there’s a big rugby or football match on, it’s certainly not commonplace for people to leave them out all the time.

Casdon

Sago

We live in a diverse community in a small conservation area on the outskirts of a City.

I see as I walk around our Avenues Pride, Palestinian and Ukrainian flags.

I bet if I flew a St George’s Cross the local Facebook page would have me down as a racist bigot.

Wouldn’t that be because it’s not custom and practice to fly your country’s flag in your garden if you live there? We don’t do that in Wales, and I’m sure the Scots don’t either, but I think if you’re a foreigner in a new land you are more likely to want to do so to support your own country if it’s at war, as both Ukraine and Palestine are.

I have seen quite a few Welsh flags in Welsh gardens, no reason for them not to of course.
I don’t believe it’s the other nations frowning on English flags flown in England but some English who assume you must be right wing if you do so.

MissAdventure

The English making the English feel that way, maybe?

That’s it, a certain element of snooty Guardian readers am guessing 😄

Patriotism to me means proud to be the nationality to which I belong.
It doesn’t mean I endorse everything that the leaders of the country do, or the things my country did in the past, or that I think the behaviour of some citizens who claim to be patriotic is good.
It is true as some have already said, that being Welsh, or Scottish or Irish means it’s okay to be patriotic about your country, but sometimes, reading posts on GN, it seems that doesn’t apply to being English.

Cossy

We seem to bandy around lots of words here on GNs, which might mean many different things to different people.

My “vision” of a patriot is:-

Someone who loves their country
Someone who is devoted to serving their country
Someone will to fight to defend their country
Someone who would put their country’s needs and wants before their own
Someone without an agenda

What does Patriotism mean to you?

I used to be proud to be a British citizen when it was Great Britain but it's not Great anymore.
So I don't love my country anymore , I wouldn't serve it and I wouldn't fight to defend it .
My late father served in WW2 and for what ? Nothing ! If I was younger I'd emigrate .

I am very pleased to be British, and largely share 'British values' of tolerance, inclusivity, politeness etc. I even queue without moaning . I feel very lucky to have been born here, and not somewhere like Afghanistan, for instance.

Am I 'proud' of being British? No, how can we be proud to have been born somewhere - our place of birth is entirely random. Pride is a deadly sin, in any case, so people being proud of their pride in their country just doesn't add up for me.

I wouldn't be much good at combat-style fighting, but I fight (peacefully) in other ways for what I believe to be right. Not because 'my country' is involved, as so much depends on who is claiming to be representing us, but because I don't think we should expect other people to do things and then moan about the results when we haven't bothered ourselves. We all have a stake in society, so should all make an effort to make the UK the place we want it to be. I think it is unpatriotic to expect a free ride in life - a country is only as good as the sum of its citizens' efforts.

If there were a war or invasion, I like to think that I would do what I could to help to resist, though.

The word 'Patriotism' suggests blind adherence to what others tell us is 'British', which is not an admirable thing, I think. How can it be patriotic to support something when it is in fashion (because it is currently 'the British way'), and not support it when times change? 'British values' used to include the idea that slavery was acceptable and that there was a racial hierarchy, for instance. A patriot would have been someone who was prepared to fight for things like that. Now (thankfully) things have changed, and with them those values have reversed, so a patriot would be someone with very different views. How can the concept of 'patriotism' mean anything when it shifts so much?

Casdon

I don’t get who it is that is making the English feel that way?

I think it's Farage and his ilk telling their supporters that they are being made to feel that way.

There's nothing like feeling persecuted and misunderstood for reinforcing group solidarity in the face of perceived victimisation.

Nevertheless, I see a ton of English flags in the football, especially the World Cup.

Sago

We live in a diverse community in a small conservation area on the outskirts of a City.

I see as I walk around our Avenues Pride, Palestinian and Ukrainian flags.

I bet if I flew a St George’s Cross the local Facebook page would have me down as a racist bigot.

No, they wouldn’t, however, much better to fly the Union Jack.

Sadly, some have “hijacked” the English flag for their own agendas.

Sago

We live in a diverse community in a small conservation area on the outskirts of a City.

I see as I walk around our Avenues Pride, Palestinian and Ukrainian flags.

I bet if I flew a St George’s Cross the local Facebook page would have me down as a racist bigot.

Wouldn’t that be because it’s not custom and practice to fly your country’s flag in your garden if you live there? We don’t do that in Wales, and I’m sure the Scots don’t either, but I think if you’re a foreigner in a new land you are more likely to want to do so to support your own country if it’s at war, as both Ukraine and Palestine are.

We live in a diverse community in a small conservation area on the outskirts of a City.

I see as I walk around our Avenues Pride, Palestinian and Ukrainian flags.

I bet if I flew a St George’s Cross the local Facebook page would have me down as a racist bigot.

The English making the English feel that way, maybe?

I don’t get who it is that is making the English feel that way?

Kandinsky

*I'll almost guarantee that nobody declaring Welsh, Scottish or Irish patriotism will encounter criticism, but contrast that to any English declaration*

Absolutely this.
And much of Wales voted Brexit.
But that’s ok.
It’s only the English who can’t be patriotic or fly the England flag without being called ‘right wing’ -
Some very mixed up weird people around.

That’s absolutely true, it’s only the English who are made to feel that way, the other nations are fine with feeling patriotic.
I think I define patriotism much as you do OP.

nanna8

I love my country and would fight for it if I had to. I love the tolerance and friendliness of our people and the weather, the beauty of the place, the vastness of it. In fact
‘ I love a sunburnt country’ as Dorothy Mackellar said. I am confident in flying our flag on occasions as well as the Original Owners Flag. My Dad was definitely a British patriot, he fought in the RAF and saw most of his mates killed and he was very, very British. I don’t feel that particularly for the UK now, I don’t like their leaders and I just have nostalgia for the friendly and supportive way it was when I was growing up. I think it has gone to hell in a handcart but I am absolutely certain I will get nasty comments rained down on me for saying that.

Not from me you won’t.

M0nica

Flags can be weapons and declarations of aggression.

Unfortunately that is what the English flag has been maainly used for in recent years.

The England flag is flown at all sporting events England play in.

I ignore the other uses, do not give them the oxygen of publicity.

I am English it is my national flag.

I am not ashamed of it or my country.

M0nica

Flags can be weapons and declarations of aggression.

Unfortunately that is what the English flag has been maainly used for in recent years.

Surely the England flag is flown most often at sports events, and St George’s day not as a political statement.