What is a lesbian?

VS, would the paramedic start the care or the treatment by announcing their sex?

Do you accept it’s OK for all males to lie, or only those who are TW?

Who has said trans women can't do certain jobs? No one.

Whose suggested they stay at home unless they're wearing a flashing sign above their heads? No one. Seriously VS is the the best argument you have to put forward?

Throughout history people have died because of their beliefs. JW's for example have been known to choose death over a blood transfusion.

I doubt that anyone would be left sitting in their own waste for any length of time if that had been noticed by a trans care worker or nurse, who then notified another member of staff so they could assist the patient Glorianny. Unless of course all the staff members were trans which is extremely unlikely.

There is nothing feminist about lying to women on the grounds that they have ‘no need’ to be told the truth.

As I say, we have no way of knowing how many women would object to having personal care carried out by men, but they have a right to know and to make an informed choice. The choice needn’t be between being left unclean and uncared for and having a male cater either, but even if that’s what it came down to, lies are not acceptable. A starving vegetarian may decide to eat meat if that is all that is available, but again, it should not be given to him or her deceitfully. Denying agency to women is not feminism, and is not acceptable in any circumstances.

I am shocked to find that anyone, feminist or not, would think that it is ok to lie about something like that.

Transwomen are treated in the real world just as natal women are, and in some cases suffer much more.
The perpetual "they are male", "they remain men" simply supports and justifies the abuse they receive.
There are very few people in my life whose sex I have real evidence of. Most of the people I know and meet are designated by gender, that is mostly appearance, sometimes by a personal statement and sometimes by the pronoun they choose.
If someone wishes to stipulate that they only wish to receive care from a natal woman they are entitled to do so. But they should realise that they might have to wait for that care. And asking for such care is transphobic, what else could it be?
Someone scared of spiders is arachnaphobic
Someone who is afraid of being treated by trans people is transphobic

I don't believe they are lying Mollygo

You know this

I think you just want to associate lying with trans people to make them appear bad

No it's not transphobic, unless you believe the law is transphobic. It applies to all men, so I dont want personal care from a man whether he us short tall or whatever feelings he has. My boundaries are not dependent on what men feel.

Try telling that Glorianny to a 94 year old lady who is spending the last months of her life in a care home because she is old, she can no longer walk, she’s losing interest in life because she can do so little for herself, she has little dignity left as all her physical needs have to be attended to by other people, she knows she’s slowly dying, she’s lost interest in food, her world has reduced to her room and the people who attend to her and her visitors.

‘Mother, you’re transphobic. You need to allow that transwoman to clean your personal parts.’

It’s unbelievable! That was my mother, but her care home respected her desire for personal care to be provided only by women so no one needed to tell she was transphobic. It’s a good job because I’m not sure she would have understood if they did.

I have worked and managed care (not for the elderly) for a long time, we would always ensure same sex care with regard to women. And actually generally for men as we were lucky in that we quite unusually had a relatively high number of Male staff.

We should though, give equal respect to different belief systems. We should not just brush aside as irellevent religious strictures because we may not be religious ourselves.
More than one religion forbids women to have intimate contact with men outside their family and this deserves to be respected and accomodated.
Respect should go both ways.

If women are told to receive personal care from men it will just go through the courts, its irritating but it's what's had to happen with regard to other issues.

We are very lucky in this country with regard to the equality act, other countries arent so lucky.

I would have been more than prepared to stand up extremely strongly to any care home that wouldn’t allow my mother her personal choice. I would have been very annoyed about anyone trying to disrespect her personal choices at that stage in her life. Luckily it wasn’t the case.

No people generally in care dont thankfully work like that maddy. As I say I cant speak for elderly care mine was/is young people with learning disabilities. Many of us understand the importance of dignity and consent with regard to personal care.

maddyone

Try telling that Glorianny to a 94 year old lady who is spending the last months of her life in a care home because she is old, she can no longer walk, she’s losing interest in life because she can do so little for herself, she has little dignity left as all her physical needs have to be attended to by other people, she knows she’s slowly dying, she’s lost interest in food, her world has reduced to her room and the people who attend to her and her visitors.

‘Mother, you’re transphobic. You need to allow that transwoman to clean your personal parts.’

It’s unbelievable! That was my mother, but her care home respected her desire for personal care to be provided only by women so no one needed to tell she was transphobic. It’s a good job because I’m not sure she would have understood if they did.

Why would I tell them that?
I don't go round telling people who are scared of spiders "You are arachnophobic."
But it's the right word for it.
My 94 year old mother in a hospital, suffering from a broken pelvis said the person who was gentlest, and showed her the most consideration, when he showered her ,was the ward sister-a man.
People are different.
But fear of a trans person is transphobia.

Many of us understand the importance of dignity and consent with regard to personal care.
And this is the crux of the matter.

As a tourist, if I visit places of worship I cover up or remove my shoes and am generally respectful of the fact that others are there to pray, regardless of my own beliefs or lack of them. Being inclusive means taking on board that not everyone will think like you.

Not respecting the consent if women with regard to personal care is misogyny.

No it's not we dont hold the same beliefs as you. I am not frightened of transpeople dont be ridiculous.

Not wanting to receive personal care from someone whose trans gender does not necessarily equate to a fear of trans gender.

Glorianny
My mother wasn’t frightened of transwomen. She didn’t want men taking care of her personal needs. She was asked when admitted to the home and as I was there I heard her response. She wasn’t frightened, she didn’t want. It’s different.

Galaxy

No people generally in care dont thankfully work like that maddy. As I say I cant speak for elderly care mine was/is young people with learning disabilities. Many of us understand the importance of dignity and consent with regard to personal care.

Thank you Galaxy.
It’s exactly this.

Jeremy Corbyn providing my personal care or Eddie Izzard, exactly the same to me.

I have gone down a hell of a rabbit hole there. I need coffee

Galaxy

Not respecting the consent if women with regard to personal care is misogyny.

And the right of men? In most care homes and hospitals, there is no way such a request by a man could be garanteed. Whomever is on rosta does the job, whatever the job is, because they are vetted, trained or qualified to do so.

But yes, things are different where my niece lives- small town, mainly rural area, in a country where being trans has just not been politicised and polarised as has happened in the UK. So the issue of deceiving or lying has just not been relevant- she is a carer, well trained, does a great job, with a smile, humour and kindness. Her genetic gender is just not an issue here. O-one woud even think of requesting same gender only care.

Back to gender and sex. It is a FACT, that some lesbians are attracted to trans women, who were originally male and still are, genetically. Not all- but some, and it is entirely their choice, not mine, or yours, or anyone's.

I don't get it - so what? Respect is respect, whether you totally understand the complicated issues, or not.

Wanting a female attendant is not transphobia, it is perfectly acceptable. Aren't we told transpeople are a tiny minority, and yet here we're being told if we don't allow a transwoman (even if complete with stubble!) to attend to personal needs we'll be left and I quote Glorianny to sit in a pool of shit and wee. Goodness, these care homes and hospitals that only have swathes of transwomen on the staff, they must employ the whole minority!
It's not transphobia to want same sex care. It's not fear of transwomen, they just don't want intimate care from a male, any male.