To me......being called 'woke' is a compliment

Oh, why that was ever applied to the left Mollygo is quite funny

Left "racism is bad"

Right "bleeding heart, snowflake, woke etc"

I had no idea why it should be used as an insult either, until I read this explanation.
When I was younger, such people would have been described as seeing themselves as whiter than white and not in the sense of skin colour.
“Snowflake" is a derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions.

I've always liked "snowflakes" too, highly individual and beautiful, how it was ever an insult is beyond me

It's very odd to me when violence that occasionally pops up on the left is thrown in like, everything the left (and actually the moderate too who who can sometimes be right leaning) stand for is somehow wrong.

Doodledog

As I said above though, the word ‘cool’, used as you have just used it, originated in black American slang.

I agree that it doesn’t matter whether you, I, or anyone else knows who Leadbelly was. He was probably repeating the word anyway - it’s just that he had a platform and others didn’t.

But sneering at people for being ‘white older women’ who dare to use what is now a mainstream term (as evidenced by its frequent use in the DM) is not exactly inclusive, is it?

But sneering at people for being ‘white older women’ who dare to use what is now a mainstream term (as evidenced by its frequent use in the DM) is not exactly inclusive, is it?

I'm pretty sure 'cultural appropriation' has been going on for as long as cultures themselves have separated people. And I can understand the annoyance if some aspect of any culture is appropriated by another without reference to its origins - as if it's a newly discovered trope. But to sneer at older-white-women for trying to understand a word that has been weaponised by the right-wing to demonise them because they are alert to injustice is, IMO, faintly ridiculous. Especially as many of them - us - are actually aware of the origins of the word.

The individuals who deserve lambasting for its use are the politically motivated right-wing hardliners who have latched on to it - most likely without having a clue of its origins or meaning - as a means to insult and invalidate those of us who care about injustice... in whatever form it takes, and whoever is the intended target. It appears to have replaced the 'bleeding-heart-liberal-do-gooder', as we were once tagged.

Great comment Terribull👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

No problem. These things are all just opinion anyway.
(and thanks!)

Kandinsky

*It doesn’t matter what ‘woke’ means to any of you. It wasn’t intended for your use any more than any other urban American slang term was. It’s not an insult. Frankly I cringe thinking so many older, and yes white, people seeking to redefine what it is supposed to mean. As usual, cultural appropriation at its worst has run-amok with this term*

Absolutely!

I’ve looked up Leadbelly.
He died 15 years before I was even born.
Not an excuse to not have heard of significant historical people I know, but he was a jazz musician not Martin Luther King, & I’m not really into jazz & neither were my parents. I’ve also never heard of any of his songs, ( having looked them up ) although I know most of Ella Fitzgerald’s & Louis Armstrong’s - so he couldn’t have been particularly mainstream.

But I’m clearly not a ‘cool, arty’. gran.

Yes that quote absolutely! outside the framework from where it emanated, it's pretty meaningless, at best a bit of a nothing word at worst simply fatuous.

Unfortunately flying out of the Pandora's Box that would encompass what would be regarded as "woke" are some of the most illiberal attitudes and intolerant people that maybe deserve the pejorative way the word is used against them.

For example, Riley Gains, female swimmer and sportswoman who put forward the point of view of the unfairness of competing against and having the indignity of sharing a locker room with trans woman 6ft 4inch, male bodied Lia Thomas, was ambushed and physically hit at San Francisco State University, by those who had an opposing view. In an age when "be kind" is wheeled out in a passive aggressive "just agree with whatever I say way" to anyone with a dissenting view in the promotion of different ideologies. I would ask how kind were these people who bullied and intimated Riley Gains? Whilst the Democrats would seek to represent a more liberal voice in the US, it was shocking to note that the recent "Save Women's Sports' Bill" passed without a single Democrat vote

Life just isn't so black and white, or either or for most people. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans represent a viable choice for many, they certainly wouldn't for me. There's no way on God's earth I'd want to vote for an administration in thrall to the gun lobby. Every time there is yet another shoot out the sheet madness of a country allowing citizens the rights to bear arms as if they are still living in the wild west is just beyond comprehension.Then of course there is the Republican's regressive anti abortion legislation which has put women's rights back decades.

Having said that many of the Democratic run states and cities appear to be spiralling into "no go areas", umpteen citizens, homeless living in tents, non compos mentis, through the wide spread use of opioids, making sidewalks places to avoid, businesses suffering through lack of footfall as the sidewalks are avoided. How feasible is it, for example, to allow robberies of up to a $1,000 without fear of prosecution, facilitating a downward spiral into a perpetual state of lawlessness . So for me it really isn't a matter, or left wing equals good and right wing equals bad. What we have in so many democracies now is a choice between a rock and a hard place, neither appeals quite honestly.

On the one hand, whilst paradoxically, there is a complete laissez faire attitude towards what a so called liberal governments ordain as acceptable, express an opinion or a protest against the orthodox point of view, such as questioning the vaccine programme as the truckers did in Trudeau's Canada, when he took the extreme/authoritarian measure of freezing them out of their bank accounts, Good God did that liberal mask slip revealing the dictator behind. Presumably he would be regarded as one of the "woke" leaders,. Woke possibly, but certainly not democratic!

I don't really understand the OP quite honestly there have always been kind caring people who do their best for society and support charities. After my mother died and I was winding up her estate, when I went through her bank statements I was amazed to see just how many DDs she had going out to various charities, I had no idea because it was just something she did without speaking about it. There are millions like her, just quietly going about trying to help others. I'm pretty sure those who stoically just get on with good works do so because they are driven by a social conscience and not the need to be labelled by what is to all intents and purposes a puerile word outside the context from where it originally derived.

Doodledog

Sorry, I’m really not sneering, apologies if my post came across that way.
( I really like your posts )

As I said above though, the word ‘cool’, used as you have just used it, originated in black American slang.

I agree that it doesn’t matter whether you, I, or anyone else knows who Leadbelly was. He was probably repeating the word anyway - it’s just that he had a platform and others didn’t.

But sneering at people for being ‘white older women’ who dare to use what is now a mainstream term (as evidenced by its frequent use in the DM) is not exactly inclusive, is it?

It doesn’t matter what ‘woke’ means to any of you. It wasn’t intended for your use any more than any other urban American slang term was. It’s not an insult. Frankly I cringe thinking so many older, and yes white, people seeking to redefine what it is supposed to mean. As usual, cultural appropriation at its worst has run-amok with this term

Absolutely!

I’ve looked up Leadbelly.
He died 15 years before I was even born.
Not an excuse to not have heard of significant historical people I know, but he was a jazz musician not Martin Luther King, & I’m not really into jazz & neither were my parents. I’ve also never heard of any of his songs, ( having looked them up ) although I know most of Ella Fitzgerald’s & Louis Armstrong’s - so he couldn’t have been particularly mainstream.

But I’m clearly not a ‘cool, arty’. gran.

Having heard of him is not the same as knowing everything he said, though. Particularly as he lived before the days of instant communication via countless media channels.

I agree that the word has been misappropriated - but people have been saying that throughout the thread. I very much doubt that many of us ‘older white women’ will be using it in any sort of primary sense. It has crossed the Atlantic and become part of our language, like countless words before have done, moving from street slang through popular culture to the mainstream. ‘Rap’ (music), ‘chill out’, bling’, ‘hip’ (meaning ‘cool’), ‘cool’, (meaning both ‘hip’ and ‘okay’), probably ’okay’ itself have all taken the same path. The misappropriation happens long before uncool and unhip dudes like us start using them, and even then, most will be using metaphorical speech marks.

I like the way language evolves and absorbs words from other places. Words describe concepts, and without a wide range of words we limit the concepts that we can discuss. Limiting the vocabulary of particular groups is oppressive, and my guess is that Leadbelly (whether he coined it himself, or, more likely, his was simply the first recorded usage of it) would be pleased that the concept has become widespread enough to have a mainstream word. In his day, the term for white people supporting black rights was far more derogatory.

The sneering usage from some sections of the media is political, and nothing to do with the word itself.

I see that De-Santis - that most Trumpian of republicans has congratulated Badenoch on her anti-wokery.

Never heard of Lead Belly until I googled him.

nanna8 no, I really don’t think that he’s as well known here as in Australia

And come on, surely everyone has heard of Leadbelly ? I find it hard to believe anyone hasn’t at least heard his name- and we’re in the deepest dark Antipodes.

maddyone

The word itself doesn’t matter. It’s how you treat other people that matters. And how they treat you.

Totally agree with this. Actions speak much louder than measly words.

Unfortunately lyleLyle the word is used an insult, in much the same way as "politically correct" is/was. I agree with your last sentence. To use another trendy word (which has strayed from original meaning), it's used to gaslight people who care about generally liberal (with a small 'l') ideas.

Language constantly changes. Words are in common usage and then they’re not. Or the meaning is changed. It’s how language develops.
I’ve often been bored educated by my Classics graduate husband on the routes of certain words. It interests him. Me, not so much.

The word itself doesn’t matter. It’s how you treat other people that matters. And how they treat you.

I thought everybody knew Leadbelly, but I suppose I should revise that statement and say that everybody who was at art school and going to folk clubs in the 60s knew Leadbelly. My mother didn't think he was an acquired taste Dickens but she and my father had been art students in the 30s and their musical tastes were very much Blues and Jazz.

I t hink I've been woke for the last 60 years since reading the works of T H White as a teenager. I was very influenced by his ideas, particularly in regard to how we should treat others,

The term as it is used today originated in the urban areas if the US, used to describe social consciousness by Black American youth.

Unsurprisingly, the term has been highjacked from those outside of the culture as if the originators of the slang term no longer get to define it.

It doesn’t matter what ‘woke’ means to any of you. It wasn’t intended for your use any more than any other urban American slang term was. It’s not an insult. Frankly I cringe thinking so many older, and yes white, people seeking to redefine what it is supposed to mean. As usual, cultural appropriation at its worst has run-amok with this term.

Oh goodness, no, nothing so sophisticated, Dickens 😁

A friend used to bring his Jelly Roll Morton 78 rpm records round on Sundays to play on our radiogram. We were about 15 or 16 then, and later used to go to a local Jazz Club.

I still have a Bunk Johnson EP somewhere in the cupboard under the stairs!

Callistemon21

Kandinsky

Never heard of Leadbelly.

Who is he? She?

People are dropping that name like it’s Elvis or something. Y’know, like ‘oh my god you’ve never heard of Leadbelly? ‘

No I haven’t - & neither have 80% of the population.

His name wasn't actually Leadbelly, Kandinsky.

He was an American singer, his surname was Ledbetter.
I was more into Bunk Johnson and Jelly Roll Morton myself.

I was more into Bunk Johnson and Jelly Roll Morton myself.

... and me!

Just a wild shot - did you ever frequent Studio 51 in Leicester Square - the Ken Colyer Jazz Club?

I think Leadbelly is a bit of an acquired taste - so my mother told me when I forced her to listen to his "Take This Hammer"

Kandinsky

Doodledog

Thank you I will definitely listen to his music.

Never heard of him either 😄