Unconscious bias

There has been progress, I agree.

But most of the higher positions in business, government, healthcare, education (and on and on) are not proportionally representative of gender, ethnicity, class etc.

And until they are representative, we need positive discrimination to even things up. We are a long way from being at the point where the best person gets the job regardless of gender, ethnicity etc.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Women aren’t in a minority! There have always been more of us.

Women are a minority in many ways. It’s not simply a matter of population.

This is not to say it wasn't sometimes there, nor does it hide the fact that female engineers met a lot more prejudice than I did
I think it's better now. Our relative (40s) has headed some large projects.

When I was 22, back in the 1960s, the Mars company advetised jobs for male graduates. I was jb hunting at the time, so I wrote to them saying 'Why just men? There are plenty of women raduates out there.

So they sent me a form and I applied for the scheme. I was interviewed, and short-listed. Then I turned round and said 'No thank you'. I had been offered a better job with more money in a more convenient locastion and preferred that.

It is not all bad out there and there have always been companies and men more than willing to offer opportunities to women.

I worked in the engineering world most of my working life - I am not an engineer - and I met no significant prejudice. This is not to say it wasn't sometimes there, nor does it hide the fact that female engineers met a lot more prejudice than I did.

When I was at university I went for an ‘interview’ with one of the banks doing the milk round as we called it. I was told they didn’t usually take women on to train as bank managers. The only woman they had taken on their management training scheme was because her father had died and he was a bank manager. I thought why the hell are you wasting my time. This was conscious bias by the bank against women.

And I was told I wouldn't be able to get a job because I was 'a furriner'. 1967 again.
Things have moved on, I hope.

I have been told that - but not since 1967.

I was once told (when I worked for Lloyds Bank) that the men were promoted faster than the women because they had families to support.

I mean in recruitment Wyllow, is there positive discrimination for class/ poverty even if they are white

I am not a saint by the way, but I do like to think I am just.

JaneJudge

GG13, with all due respect, not everyone is like you

You are nice btw not that you need to be told

Thank you JaneJudge

I fell into this via my DH, at first 40 years ago I was probably a novelty visiting building sites, especially when extremely pregnant.

I have seen a change for the good over this time, definitely more females in what were traditionally male roles.

JaneJudge

I work in a male dominated industry and it is flipping bloody obvious I am discriminated against because of my biological sex. I often feel like that woman in the boardroom on the fast show

As do I, our female employees are equal to the men apart from when physicality comes into the equation.

GG13, with all due respect, not everyone is like you

You are nice btw not that you need to be told

Galaxy

And how do we deal with the unconscious bias of class/money which is in my experience the most limiting on atainment/jobs etc.

We recognise it. Speak up about it just as we can with discrimination abut women and racist discrimination.

We stop people getting away with their "unconscious" bits. Name them. In my experience, not open exposure in meetings although that is sometimes necessary - best taken up 1 2 1 or 2 1 2 so the person doesn't feel over exposed and attacked in front of others. (its best to go and see the boss with another person!)

The very meaning Of "unconscious" is that the person involved cannot really be aware if it in themselves, it needs others to speak up - and be ready to listen.

I recall a conversation not too long go in the jacuzzi att he y
gym with a women of around 35 who was he only woman at middle management level in a firm. Men used to retreat to talk about her in mens loo, undermining remarks, jealously when she got praise. Sigh. It was in a "male field something in garages.

I really had hoped this was a thing of the past, and always wonder, "what are they like at home with partners and girl children." she felt very isolated, there was nothing overt she could take up to the management. all covert.

I work in a male dominated industry and it is flipping bloody obvious I am discriminated against because of my biological sex. I often feel like that woman in the boardroom on the fast show

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

Sorry I do not think that there is a place for positive discrimination in the 21st C.

It can create an atmosphere in the workplace when a position goes to someone because of their ethnicity or gender.

The job should always go to the candidate most suited for the role and if applicable be able to fit in with the dynamics of the team.

We either get discrimination or positive discrimination. It is never a level playing field where the best candidate gets the job.

Gagajo I have been an employer for 40+ years, the best person has always got the job in my business.

Do you not think that your opinion is clouded by your experiences? As an interviewee you are not party to all the other applicants details.

We all worked together in the same department. He was a friend of mine. I went to his wedding and the Christening of his children. The other guy I was less familar with. It was age & sex discrimination.

Discrimination is evident in every area of life. Age, sex, race, physical ability, appearance.

Positive discrimination is a step on the way to equality. Equality won't happen without it.

Gagajo this is something we will probably never agree on.

I have a responsibility to all my staff, when interviewing for a vacancy I consider their skills, their experience and upper most is always will they fit in with those who they will be working alongside, under and over.

I will not employ someone because they tick the current relevant boxes to the detriment of the rest of my employees.

When I returned to work many years ago I expected questions about how I would manage with childcare etc.

But there were none, as that was against the rules on the grounds of discrimination against women.

Some of the questions did not relate to the job at all; they were quite odd but apparently designed to demonstrate how quickly you could think and adapt to different situations.

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

Sorry I do not think that there is a place for positive discrimination in the 21st C.

It can create an atmosphere in the workplace when a position goes to someone because of their ethnicity or gender.

The job should always go to the candidate most suited for the role and if applicable be able to fit in with the dynamics of the team.

We either get discrimination or positive discrimination. It is never a level playing field where the best candidate gets the job.

Gagajo I have been an employer for 40+ years, the best person has always got the job in my business.

Do you not think that your opinion is clouded by your experiences? As an interviewee you are not party to all the other applicants details.

We all worked together in the same department. He was a friend of mine. I went to his wedding and the Christening of his children. The other guy I was less familar with. It was age & sex discrimination.

Discrimination is evident in every area of life. Age, sex, race, physical ability, appearance.

Positive discrimination is a step on the way to equality. Equality won't happen without it.

Hear hear GrannyGravy13.

I was involved in a bit of a spat with the HR department where I worked. Actually "spat" is too strong a word. "Discussion".

They wondered aloud why I was employing so many women.

Turned out of course that all the previous hiring managers in my position had been men, and ...well...you can finish it off yourself...

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

Sorry I do not think that there is a place for positive discrimination in the 21st C.

It can create an atmosphere in the workplace when a position goes to someone because of their ethnicity or gender.

The job should always go to the candidate most suited for the role and if applicable be able to fit in with the dynamics of the team.

We either get discrimination or positive discrimination. It is never a level playing field where the best candidate gets the job.

Gagajo I have been an employer for 40+ years, the best person has always got the job in my business.

Do you not think that your opinion is clouded by your experiences? As an interviewee you are not party to all the other applicants details.

I think with regard to the maternity leave discrimination issue it would be much more useful if we moved towards shared leave as maternity leave tends to disadvantage women in many ways that positive discrimination cant undo.

GrannyGravy13

Sorry I do not think that there is a place for positive discrimination in the 21st C.

It can create an atmosphere in the workplace when a position goes to someone because of their ethnicity or gender.

The job should always go to the candidate most suited for the role and if applicable be able to fit in with the dynamics of the team.

We either get discrimination or positive discrimination. It is never a level playing field where the best candidate gets the job.

Forsythia

GagaJo

Ladyleftfieldlover

Women aren’t in a minority! There have always been more of us.

We still face a lot of discrimination in the workplace (and elsewhere) though.

But how did you come across in the interview? Would you have fitted in to the team? Did they have more to offer in some way that you were unaware of?

He was a nice guy. That was about it. He lasted 9 months.

It's bias.

M0nica

I do NOT want positive discrimination. I want a level playing field with all treated fairly.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

👏👏👏

I do NOT want positive discrimination. I want a level playing field with all treated fairly.

Two wrongs do not make a right.