Prince Andrew

I find it offensive that posters are referring to this young woman, Virginia Roberts Guiffre, by her surname as if she is a criminal.

Well that’s because they think she is - how dare she have allowed herself st 15 to be manipulated by GM friend of GM ( visitor to several royal residences) and then used and trafficked? And now how dare she want justice ? Damn cheek

Money does equal or buy justice,

It can help when there’s been injustice

And anyway that’s up to her

Isn't there a famous saying about If you want to really know a person then take a look at their friends

That is very telling

Why are Coolio and Old so defensive on this topic?

The young woman is not after just money but even if she was so what?

It is a good thing that this issue is being looked at so closely.

Maybe this publicity can help young women to be less naive and instead to be more vigilant .
It is a tough age when you think you are strong and know it all and you don't yet know how despicable some men can be.

Looking at facts isn’t being defensive, not agreeing with every word in posts is not being defensive.

@pink I said that Giuffre may be after a payout.

Not judging at all - pursuit of money is the only action that seems to make sense. (I'm talking about any potential action brought against PA, by the way).

If the alleged sex took place in this country then there's no case to answer. No crime has been committed. However - and I AM surmising here - if she feels that, by claiming she was procured/trafficked etc - then there could be a suggestion that the alleged sex wasn't consensual. I'm not a lawyer, so no expert, but....that would shed a completely different light on the matter.

Americans sue in civil cases - maybe she thinks she has a chance with PA? He's wealthy and high profile enough to be a target. Or maybe she's hoping she'll be paid to keep schtum? As I said, just surmisin'

And thanks Annie.

What has concerned me is - Andrew gave the interview, the following day a new alleged victim made a statement to the media , she was accompanied by a lawyer, she said

Epstein invited her to the island where she could meet Andrew but she said no.

Such a coincidence this was the day following Andrew saying
he had been to the island

No, I am not defending Andrew

Has the Queen kicked PA out of B Palace? According to the Daily Mail. I thought she was supporting him. I can’t keep up!

Suziewoozie's summary of JE's offences confirms beyond any doubt that he was a sex offender. That he arranged for young girls possibly aged 12 upwards (and one boy so far identified) to be procured, groomed and sexually exploited by him and his associates.

Why the focus on whether or not his victims are seeking compensation from his estate. Surely, the focus needs to be on establishing the facts, compensating those who were trafficked and abused and also learning from this dreadful situation.

Those of us who have experience of working with such young people are in no doubt how hard it is for them to get out of that life with their mental health and self belief in a reasonable place.

I don’t recall anyone saying there were doubts that Epstein was
a sex offender.

12 years old, the parents should be prosecuted

Never mind the parents Anniebach. We have no idea whether the parents neglected or sexually exploited their children. We can make all kinds of judgements but we may be very wrong.

A recent tv drama called A Confession, showed the unsuccessful efforts made by one mother to keep her daughter safe. Police and social workers involved with families all too often come across so called 'good families' where one child has followed a path leading them into sexual exploitation.

I don't recall accusing you of saying JE isn't a sex offender, I do recall a number of posts where you have been very critical of his victims.

No Iam I have not criticised, I do question .

There is the tragedy of victims of abuse not being believed, there is the tragedy of false accusations .

True we may be wrong about parents , you have not said this
about the parents of the alleged abuser here.

No one's criticising his alleged victims.

Wondering what lies behind Giuffre's and other alleged victims' motivation of PA is not the same as criticising them. It's logical reasoning.

And in any case, in an investigation of this sort, all parties are fair game. Nature of the beast.

And in any case, in an investigation of this sort, all parties are fair game. Nature of the beast

Unbelievable

I think oldgimmer means all parties in an investigation can be questioned

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I think of all the trafficked and exploited children and feel so angered and dispirited on their behalf. “Fair game” indeed

I think GN is a pretty disgusting place at the moment

oldgimmer

I might be totally out of order but are you a man?

because you seem so uncaring for the plight of the young women....It is a fact that Epstein had abused dozens of young girls, some as young as twelve.

To me the issue of money is completely irrelevant.
What matters is to shine a light and see what has been going on and then go after them and women who were involved.
I imagine that the Maxwell woman was in it for the money....or was she just very evil?

Also you write so off hand about the abuse...You don't get it do You?

That is why it sounds like you are a bloke and also that you have no daughters.
If you had daughter you could not be dispassionate about this issue. I think.

Most fathers are outraged about predatory men on young girls and have a protective attitude.
You almost seen to regard this like an intellectual game

Oh pink I don’t think the word intellectual is at all appropriate.

The Maxwell woman (and I have no hesitation in referring to her by her surname) may be as insensitive to other people as her father was. He creamed off the pensions of his workers.

The apple didn't fall far from the tree there, did it!