Troublesome children

You re not getting it Bellesgran it’s not about trusting the children (although clearly you can’t) but it’s about trusting what could happen to two little girls out by themselves from the outside world
I m very surprised that the 4 year olds’ mother or father didn’t come round to see you as she sounds as if she was quite badly assaulted by your twins

Why don’t you put your coat on and go out with them
I would think one of the parents needs to go part time and look after their two children work should not come before the safety or happiness of their children

This must be so hard for you.

If the school has already highlighted the fact that these little girls are a danger to other children in their class - WHY haven't the parents addressed this?

I wonder where the mother of the 4 year old was, not just when the assault took place but later when she saw the state of her child?

You and the parents will have to face the fact that these little girls have serious behavioural problems but its certainly not your job to try and put that right.

In your place, I'd be forcing Mum and Dad to address this by simply refusing to have the twins until something constructive to help them has been done. They need to see a child psychologist - they are very unhappy little people but they cannot be allowed to be a danger to every other child they come across.

Five year olds playing out unsupervised? Really?

Notes sent home to grandma from school regarding bullying?

Let’s unpick this. No school I know just sends a note home. The teacher dispenses children to parents or caters at the classroom door or nearby and will ask to have a word, especially with something as serious as bullying.

Five year old do not usually play out unsupervised and in my experience a victim will run home to mum to report injuries.

Please comment on this Bellsgran

PS do you live in the UK?

I’m not getting involved.

When our oldest GS was that age he was fed up in the house , he was , and still is a very sociable child , I let him run up and down outside , popping my head out to see him every few minutes .

I think you and the children's parents need to review your entire child care system. A lot is being expected of you Bellesgran when the parents should be dealing with their children.
It sounds as if they need much more structure and supervision in their lives and definitely should not be outside the house/garden without adult supervision at 5 years old.

Your post echoed my immediate thoughts on reading the OP Anja. The entire scenario sounds very odd to me

Hi Bellesgran. I used to work in CAMHS and I'd suggest that you get a referral to this team with the aim of attending The Incredible Years Webster Stratton parenting course, which you'll be able to attend with another primary carer which I'd recommend is either parent.

It's difficult to offer effective solutions here as a full assessment needs completing to help you with effective behaviour modification,but a suggestion that anger generally covers fear may give you something for you to think about whilst waiting for a CAMHS referral ie; does getting something wrong result in punishment without explanation and an opportunity to adjust?
It may also be an attachment difficulty which the course will help with.

Good luck.

I wonder if the problem here could be that some schools have now broken up for Easter and the children could be getting bored? They need plenty of activities to keep them occupied and out of mischief.

I was going to suggest Play Dough, excellent for idle hands, unless they start throwing it.

I thought the zipping up of jackets was a strange thread but this is even stranger. There is also another one about the car not starting!

mmmmm strange times with small children, so very very unpredictable and not always honest.

Bellsgran things sound a lot more complicated than your initial post. I would want to sit with parents and discuss in detail rules and sanctions you want to put into place so the message is clear. A consistent use of language for praise and discipline/consequences can help e.g I like the way you helped because......... well done you made the right choice...... I don’t like your behaviour because.... you chose to do the wrong thing so......

Totally agree with all of your post Anja. School wouldn’t just send notes and would speak to parents and or grandparent with the parents permission.

There is often a long waiting list for CHAMs but the school would be able to refer you as well as a doctor. The Twins Association would also have advice.

Not sure about the point of posting ‘I’m not getting involved’ as Bellsegran asked for some suggestions of help/support.

It's evident here that there's not enough parental involvement or control as parents are either at work and when not they're quite happy to allow the children to play out ( out of the way again ) These twins have an attachment disorder.

when I try that they just take major tantrums then throw things

Good grief.
It sounds as if the twins are firmly in control - of you, I'm sorry to say.

Let them have major tantrums, in rooms away from each other, and you, and let them stew for a while. If they throw anything, or break anything then further punishment, in that they pick things up and 'pay' for damage (in some ay) must be made clear to them.

They are only five and at that age you have to have the upper hand and they need to know YOU are the law makers, you are in charge and bad behaviour is not acceptable. Make sure they appreciate this before they grow any older. It means being consistent and on top of everything, which can be hard work, but that sort of effort and consistency pays off. If they don't behave for you now, they are likely to be little monsters before they are ten.

It's called discipline and it doesn't have to be draconian, but it does have to be taught. I do hope you have taken the twins around to the house of the little girl they bullied and made them apologise.

Then they need 'a stern talking to' as my Dad used to say. Stop the rot now.

If the 2 of them are joining as a 'gang' it would be an idea to separate them as much as possible. eg different schools. Though that would be another burden in organisation for you and the stressed out parents.

I am very confused as in my world tiny children of 4 and 5 don’t go out without an adult or much older teenager. They don’t have bruises they show to complete strangers or knock on complete strangers doors to show bite marks.

It sounds to me as if all the parents here are checking out and tiny children are being left to fend for themselves or go their own way.

Baffling.

Op you need s proper approach from the parents and yourself and school to tackle this behaviour and stop them being in charge here.

As I said, unpredictable and not always honest.

I would consider a 4 year old knocking on a strangers door to show bite marks a serious safety concern and neglect.

I thought it was the 10 year old and 8 year old granddaughters (see previous thread) that were causing the trouble over doing up their coats ? Not 5 year old twins?
Or have I missed something?

Tuppence ?
Love your name my grandad used to call me tupenny hapenny

I thought it was the 10 year old and 8 year old granddaughters (see previous thread) that were causing the trouble over doing up their coats ? Not 5 year old twins?
Or have I missed something?

Tuppnce yes you have missed something. If you actually read that previous thread instead of just the search results, you'd see that it was a different poster on the thread who said she had 10 year old and 8 year old granddaughters. The OP, Bellesgran, started the thread by saying she was "grandma to twin 5yr old girls"

You need to sit the parents down and tell them they need to re-evaluate their jobs in order to correctly parent their children.

No 5 year old should be out unsupervised full stop. No excuses about safe areas or what other reason they can come up with for their laziness.
April Jones would’ve turned 12 the other day. Would’ve being the most important word.

I have a 5 year old. Sometimes he doesn’t want to do things. That’s life. It’s hard being little. When your brain develops to a point where you have your own wants and desires but you’re under the rule of adults.
Tough.

Get down to their level. Tell them XYZ is happening. End of discussion. If they argue or do not comply send them to their room.

Do they have any active Social Services in the OP's area, and do they know half of the infant population is running wild, unsupervised?

Think someone should tell them.

Sometimes I look at a gransnet thread and think I’ve entered a parallel universe......