Has Brexit ruined Gransnet?

I reached ‘peak Brexit’ about 6 months ago. It really has become Groundhog Day & all you get is the same stuff being said over & over again.
I scroll past most brexit threads these days & feel much better for it.
But I must say, I’ve seen far more aggression & rudeness from remainers, which is surprising as they always maintain they’re on the ‘nice’ side. The anger & bitterness is shocking tbh.
I don’t know what will happen with brexit, we’ll probably leave with some sort of fudged deal that doesn’t really please anyone.
& I’m not sure if brexit has ruined online forums in general - probably.

Kandinsky, I think you’re right. For the first Sunday morning for years I haven’t put on the television to watch Sophie on Sky orAndrew Marr on BBC. I’m Brexited out at the moment.

Oh totally agree it’s been blown out of all sensible proportion. I look in bewilderment at politicians like Farrage and soubery and am amazed at their passion and drama!

It’s a bloody trading treaty! If we stay it’s fine if we go it will be fine.

I do think now some politicians are trying to make their names in history over this instead of just bloody well come together and get on with it.

There are far far more pressing needs in the country which are being totally ignored.

Just bloody well revoke article 50 or bloody well leave.

Get on with it Theresa.

If we stay it will be fine, although not as fine as it would have been without having wasted billions on this brexit nonsense.

If we leave with a no deal it will certainly not be fine, according to the head of the civil service.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-theresa-may-vote-cabinet-civil-service-mark-sedwill-a8850531.html

varian

There is no such thing really as going with no deal. Deals will be done as businesses airlines and ports have already said. It’s only the politicians who are spreading lies and untruths on all sides.

We had all this doom and nonsence sensations when we didn’t join the euro! Campbell telling us we would be in w recession blah blah. Again the vote to leave produced no immediate job losses.

It’s uncertainty and delay that’s the problem. A clear stay or go Is workable by both sides.

I voted remain but clearly see if we go it will be ok and if we stay it will be ok.

A decision is needed now.

I’m definitely with you ladies Mycat, kadinsky and maddyone. I’m interested, yes but my interest is waning now. We’ve heard all the arguments, back to front and round again! I just want it done now. I don’t much care how and that’s saying summat!!

Hear hear Mycat
What about all this ‘certainty’ that business needed? They’re not getting any the longer it drags on!

The best way to stop the uncertainty is to revoke article 50. Unless we do that it will go on and on and on for the rest of our lives.

got to have the last word haven`t you varian? Never heard of democracy? no thought not, not in your little world

Absolutely it’s businesses that are far far more important than these posing politicians because it’s the businesses that generate growth and produce the money that pays for what’s really important to us. Schools, NHS, social care police etc.

We need a decision!! Either way I don’t care but this dithering is just a national joke.

To be honest I am far more worried about Corbyn and Abbott running the country than leaving the EU although maybe not as I can’t see anyone doing a worse job than Theresa is right now.

What a bloody crew!

vatian

Or just to leave?

I suppose it depends on whether you swallow the lies on both sides.

I don’t. I see benefits from remaining and staying. There are benefits on both positions.

Whats the worse position is dithering and the half in and half out Brexit proposed by TM!

Revoking article 50 may on balance be dangerous because you may well see the rise of the far right in this country to act as a nasty counterbalance of racism and hate as we see rising in capture of labour by momentum.

I can’t see either another election or a referendum lancing the boil as despite some politicians saying people have changed their minds all I see is views becoming even more entrenched.

Best just go and let the business sort it out. They clearly will.

"Just" leaving would not resolve the uncertainty - it would mean the next ten or fifteen years being utterly dominated by trade negotiations and arguments about whose fault it was that the UK was so much worse off.

Remaining would allow us to go back to addressing all the many other important political issues which have been neglected for far too long.

Absolutely right Mycat business once it knows what’s happening will sort it out. It always finds a way.

I’m with you actually.
Good / bad both sides. Let’s just make a decision!

varian

I disagree because trade deals are driven by business and it’s in both in our interst and the EU business interest to trade.

It’s politicians that are causing this nonsense.

Just revoking article 50 would cause even more hatred and unrest. The genie is out of the bottle I am afraid.

utmstrongran

Totally agree

And just revoking article 50 would involve us in decades of debate over democracy and the duplicity of politicians.

Either way involves risks but I think leaving is less problematic.

So basically we're running scared of the far right elements, is that what some people are saying? The whole shebang was Cameron's way of dealing with the far right within the Tory party. Now they're controlling TM, voting against her plan, then changing their minds and voting in favour, keeping us all in limbo. Will they, won't they?

So now we're to be afraid of rethinking and revoking Article 50 because right wing elements will make things difficult for the ordinary people caught up in the middle? Police and army ready for action should riots break out? We're being held to ransom by these people.

It is true that "they export more to us than we do to them" if we just consider it in money terms.

However the other 27 EU countries, in total, export 8% of all their exports to the UK whereas about 44% of UK exports in goods and services went to other countries in the EU in 2017.

Obviously any reduction in trade caused be brexit would hurt everyone, but it is absolutely untrue that "they need us more than we need them". That is just a leave campaign slogan designed to fool those who looked no further.

It would be the EU, not the UK , that would hold the upper hand in any trade negotiations if we became a third country.

fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/?gclid=CjwKCAjwv6blBRBzEiwAihbM-U4hbv843Mctjen6EUeBgHZPQCGcE3yX8sKHUUnkjmFEKpmB-iPftxoCbmUQAvD_BwE

Mycat I'm on both sides of the fence too.
"To leave or not to leave" isn't a clearcut yes/no issue. Even after all the debating that has gone on.
It's the wrong question.

ps Teetime - your question is clear - no it hasn't ruined Gransnet.

No Ginny I never said we should be held to randsone by the far right but be afraid of them rising here like in France and Germany hell Yes and if you arnt you should be!

I am equally scared by the rise of the far left in labour.

Both wings extremely dangerous vile racist she unpleasant. On the rise in Europe fact

Look the facts are politicians gave people the referendum. They stood for elections on keeping the promise to leave because leave won the Whys and what ifs of Cameron calling it are immaterial we are where we are!

I love Britain and my view is she’s safer honouring the people’s vote! The first one and Leaving properly than the fudges messes uncertainty and danger of a Brexit In name only or revoking article 50.

You have to put aside your feelings and look at the facts.

All warnings about leaving without a deal are speculations and not facts.

varian

I never say they need us more than we need them as I am not tribal.

We need each other.

Fennel

Me too but on balance I think we are safer honouring the vote. I voted remain.

And I place far more trust in business leaders who will take it out of politicians hands and arm twist to get deals done quickly post Brexit.

Businesses will have to do their best to survive brexit chaos. Many have invested huge amounts of time, money and resources in trying to minimise the damage, but many will not survive. It is worth noting that most businesses wanted the UK to remain in the EU and still do.