Referendum

Jane we are all sick of it but surely we have a duty to vote in favour of what is best for the future of our country? Remember - all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.

But who knows best any more?

Ah, that's the question Jane at least you are thinking about it. I find a lot of people have entrenched views and don't listen. I think about it a lot and am ready to listen to things I am not sure about or haven't heard before. I wish more people would be open minded.

300 years Jane 10 and maybe you could tell me and other Scottish Nationalists WHY its "better together" when quite clearly its not.Did the VOW ever materialise,did Cameron stand at the door of no10 and tell us about EVEL which is basically telling scots we can turn up at Westmisnter but we cant have any real jobs in it.The SNP have NEVER voted on English only matters yet the rst of the parties can vote on things that affect us .Democracy ? Not in my book
As to financial ruin...lol.Its Scotland thats been paying UK debts for at least the apst 40 years and more.The figures are available in old westminster accounts.We would be just fine when we dont have to pay for London sewers and crossrail or Buck house,or HS2 etc etc etc .ALL things that we have to contribute to yet have nothing to do with us!
WM DIDN'T contribute to the Qeensferry crossing ..thats bridge you said you felt sorry for the people who had to use it .The one thats used daily and has never had to close APART from the normal snagging ,Why would anyone wnat their country run by people who have no interest or knowledge of it ? Please tell .

The UK has had 9 Scottish Prime Ministers as well as numerous UK Prime Ministers who were either brought up in Scotland, moved to Scotland at one point, represented constituencies in Scotland or were/are of Scottish descent

Oh here we go again PADDYANN. I'M NOT GETTING SUCKED INTO YOUR SHOUTY NASTY NATIONALIST NONSENSE! All your points are refutable as we all know.

nonnie only Remainers who lost the referendum vote and are sufficiently angry about it are clamouring for another referendum.Fact!

Just as angry Scot Nats seek yet another referendum.

My view is that we now need to revoke article 50 with a commitment to pro- actively investigate potential routes forward to benefit the whole of UK & all its citizens.
Have a cross party, leave/ remainer working group with delegated powers to put together a clear and honest document to illustrate, unambiguously, the pros / cons for all in UK. Something sadly missing leading up to the referendum.
In a couple of years we could then have another ADVISORY referendum to inform MPs , our democratcally elected reps. to make a decision. ??

I love your ‘pigs might fly’ emoji *PECS’!

urmstongran We need a proper oneon the GN options!

Not quite the same lemon.
I believe that society (Uk) has gradually, over the years of Tory government, become more and more disgruntled. Alienated and disillusioned by the huge wealth gap, many have been disadvantaged to a greater or lesser extent by the 'austerity' con and while watching enormous fortunes accumulate for the élite while they suffer.
Whether cruelly squeezed by benefit cuts and poor wages, or working hard and seeing wages eroded by increases far below what they need and deserve - (NHS workers, teachers etc), they've had enough.
Throw into the mix the dissension caused by the lies and deception of the brexit campaign and pretend that leaving the EU is the answer to all our problems - the discredited promises we know so well about borders, immigrants, NHS and you see the result.

Whether based on racism, naivety, a way of getting back at the establishment or any other reason,
spiteful, angry or well-meaning but misinformed, they decided that EU was a fine scapegoat!
With Cameron and co running scared of Farage and his mates, and a cynical, badly-conducted referendum on offer, the Uk finds itself struggling to deal wit the present chaos.

On the other hand, achieving Scottish independence is a long-standing aim drawing support from virtually all strata of society ( apart from our home-grown Tory landowners).
This long slow burn has been exacerbated by the same ills as in the South but the very worst-off have had an element of protection - bedroom tax exemptions, increased higher-rate taxation, free personal care and more. Now the arrogance of Westminster might well be the straw that breaks the camel's back and the encouragement needed by the waverers.

Why assume racism and naivety , poverty, etc.Certainly had nothing to do with my views on the EU or any of our friends.
It’s like me saying that Remainers only voted that way because of being afraid of change and too timorous to think we could even exist once out of the EU.

True, Scot Nats had always been there on the sidelines, mainly thought of as loonytunes, and now they have more support, although less I think than they had a few years ago.

Lemon nobody made assumptions about YOUR reasons for the vote you cast. However it is naive to think that the reasons mcem gave were not influential in many voters minds.

Well I got the answer to my earlier question re the 2nd Independent Referendum today from the horses mouth.

Watching Andrew Marr Nicola Sturgeon doesn't know when but it will happen.



I still do not understand why over the past 2 years the SNP did not capitalise on the EU Referendum to secure Scotland's position as an Independent Member State of the EU staying in the Customs Union and Single Market as that is according to the SNP what ALL Scottish voters want.

Oh Nichola Sturgeon....
In the Brexit referendum, Scotland voted in favor of the U.K staying in the EU by 62 percent to 38 percent. Sturgeon had said after that vote that Scotland had delivered a “strong, unequivocal vote” to remain in the EU.20 May 2018

I love this because it’s the same (in reverse plus a bit more) that is Yvette Cooper’s constituency vote.
Why is it a ‘strong unequivocal vote’ for some .... but not for others eh?

No wonder Leavers are bluddy disillusioned!

Sorry lemon you are wrong. I have heard Leave voters who want another referendum but even if you haven't it is wrong to state that as a 'fact' as you cannot possibly know.

and:

^Why assume racism and naivety , poverty, etc.Certainly had nothing to do with my views on the EU or any of our friends.
It’s like me saying that Remainers only voted that way because of being afraid of change and too timorous to think we could even exist once out of the EU.^

I don't think that is an assumption, I think both those reasons have been clearly aired. They may not be your reasons but they are the reasons for some.

PECS I agree with ^My view is that we now need to revoke article 50 with a commitment to pro- actively investigate potential routes forward to benefit the whole of UK & all its citizens.
Have a cross party, leave/ remainer working group with delegated powers to put together a clear and honest document to illustrate, unambiguously, the pros / cons for all in UK. Something sadly missing leading up to the referendum.
In a couple of years we could then have another ADVISORY referendum to inform MPs , our democratcally elected reps. to make a decision.^ I also agree it is unlikely but then I didn't believe we would be in this mess so who knows?

We need to revoke Article 50 ASAP. It cannot be left until the last minute. As Jon Stone, writing in the Independent explains-

"The ECJ says the decision to withdraw the notification has to be made in line with the country’s “own national constitutional requirements” – whatever they may be.

Given the UK Supreme Court ruled that Article 50 could only be triggered with a vote of parliament, it is quite likely that it would need to be revoked by a vote of parliament. The court’s advocate general said in his recommendation that it was “logical that the revocation of that notification also requires parliamentary approval” given it was required to trigger the process.

The government’s lawyers appear to have conceded this point: in their submission to the ECJ during the course of this case they said parliament must have “directed the government” to withdraw Article 50.

However, neither of these strong indications actually make it law. Given what’s riding on the question and the ambiguity of the UK constitution, there is likely to be a legal challenge no matter what happens. Only then will we be absolutely certain. But it’s probably a parliamentary vote. "

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cancel-stop-revoke-article-50-explained-remain-stay-eu-latest-parliament-theresa-may-a8690886.html

lemon I do hope that you have read the posts following yours (yesterday 16.14).
Reading a post is one thing. Distorting it to suit your own agenda is another. It's obvious to those who actually think about a post that I made it very clear that my comments were directed at/about some voters. I stick to that and clearly I'm not alone.

Do you remember when Liberals were dismissed as woolly-minded hippies? Or when many thought the Greens would never be a credible force in politics?
With that in mind, I happily dismiss your "loonytunes" comment as utterly risible.

If you want to take part in a grown-up discussion you need to take steps to look less desperate.
The quality of your debating skills is fast deteriorating I'm afraid!
However as your opinions about politics in Scotland is completely irrelevant, I don't feel the need to go on discussing issues with you which you clearly don't understand.

Voted leave and would do so again.

Mr Putin will be so pleased Miche

Sigh