The Minister for Loneliness shares her thoughts.....

90% of the replies here focus on the holiday issue when the real message is “take care of the elderly and the lonely” with some real suggestions on how to help:

Start a conversation. Stop and talk. Don't hurry them.
Offer practical help, such as shopping, posting a letter, picking up prescriptions or walking their dog
Offer to accompany them or give them a lift to medical appointments, the library, hairdressers or faith services
Share your time - volunteer with an organisation that has befriending services matching you with an isolated elderly person for home visits or regular phone calls
Help with household tasks - offer to take out the rubbish, change light bulbs, clear snow, put up pictures
Share a meal - take round an extra plate of hot home-cooked food or a frozen portion

Why does nobody comment on this? Society as a collective system cannot cover the increasing problem of loneliness - each one of us can. I visit an old lady in a nursing home. She is lonelier there than when she lived on her own. Most residents suffer from dementia or are hard of hearing. With no relatives she relies on indivuals visiting her. The state cannot organise this.

I didn't work zero hours but, as a civil servant, if I needed time off to care for anybody I had to use my annual leave allowance. If I'd used it all up, I'd have had to take unpaid leave (which I did when my son was very young and I was a single parent). Similarly, if you reduce your hours for the purposes of long-term caring, you get paid less. Might not be so bad for couples who are both working but not everyone's in that position. Must be very difficult if you've got parents and children depending on you.

I'm wondering how people earn a living if they look after a succession of frail relatives..

My Italian friend was retired, by the time she started caring for her mother and sister. She managed on her state pension, as many of us do.

My sentiments exactly Lumarei

And mine Lumarei!

Lumarei if the residential home was properly staffed then your friend would have someone available to chat with her, play games or even take her out for visits. Of course volunteers are valuable but they should not be an essential part of someone's life.
I don't know if anyone watched the drama with Sheridan Smith and Alison Steadman,she lost her job because she was caring for her mum. Someone on a zero hours contract wouldn't lose their job, they would just be left with no income, but still be employed.So unable to claim benefits or anything.

In an ideal world.....
I asked my DSister about her wonderful family holidays with AC and DGC and she pointed out that she paid.
We were included this year with DS and DDiL on their holiday and we invited DD and DSIL to share ours.
We were useful as babysitters but I am grateful to them both for being with us.
We don't live near so it was very special.
It's strange being the oldies when we were so used to being the parents.

Italian family values were mentioned, a friend of mine is married to an Italian man. He pressured her to give up work so that SHE could look after HIS parents. He would never in a million years consider being the one to curtail HIS career to look after them himself. He also vetoed them moving nearer her own family. Care is very much womens work in the part of Italy he comes from.

Its an individual anecdote, but not an admirable one...

And lets be honest. When a lot of public figures talk about families and communities stepping up a lot of them mean women. It is WOMEN who had to stop doing as much free caring as they did in the past, and now that its not done freely it is missed.

But women now can't afford to stay home with their own babies, or to retire at a reasonable age,

Same goes for these cultures we are supposed to be more like: its mostly the women doing it!

My mother cared for her MIL and then FIL with her SIL, her 3 BILs had plenty of opinions and popped in but did not do any of the washing or dressing or pad changing at the end.

My mother and her SIL were however able to do so because one was a stay at home mum and the other worked part time.

Now that "getting by" requires 2 full time incomes these free family carers are simply not available.

And I know that caring is a bit different to addressing loneliness but theyre both symptoms of the same thing. There is no family time any more. No weekends off together to go see the wider family etc.

Greengran That was the Italian way, but like every other European country, it is changing.

Lumarei All these things are very good suggestions where people are disabled and frail, regardless of age. It is simply asking people to be neighbourly (and their will be apple pie for tea)

What is so insulting about the minister;s message was the way she lumped all older people (these days generally defined as over 50) in this category, regardless that many are fit and healthy, that the younger ones still have 20 years of work ahead before they can retire and probably have parents still living who may or may not need help.

I am fed up with self congratulatory Ministers, who think wafting around with metaphorical wand in hand making bland statements like this, unfocused and with no direct action, or budget on their part can be passed off as policy and a government responding to the needs of the community

IMO the loneliness issue is not about age at all. Everyone is in their little pigeon holes like worker bees... but few people have the time or money to do much to enrich their lives.

Lumarei, I have searched for such an organisation and cannot find one. Age Concern (AgeUK)in my town has no such organisation. The local Methodist church did put people in touch and introduced me to two old people. One old lady dismissed me as I was an atheist, and the other had more facilities than I had myself .
I am aged eighty seven now and have known for many years that old people , same as young people, are choosy about who we want to befriend.

Your practical suggestions are good. I myself have many friendly neighbours and have been invited to phone them if I need anything. However many neighbourhoods are not like the working class, semi- detached, council house one where I live, and there is a need for a professional worker to organise help in many neighbourhoods.

Rental accommodation is so unstable these days, people renting may have to move every 6-12 months through no fault of their own because their landlord is selling/intrusive/wants the home back to live in/upping the rent.

Helpful neighbours need to be trusting neighbours. You wouldnt want someone you only met last month taking your cash on the promise of returning with groceries!

While the market makes for such insecure living, how can relationships between neighbours be forged?

I agree M0nica I am a Grandmother but in my 50’s so nowhere near retirement age and I don’t consider myself elderly. I am still working and have a life of my own as many people still do even after they become grandparents! I also don’t see the minister explaining how the young families are supposed to afford to pay for the grandparent to go on holiday with them or make assumptions that the Grandparent could afford to pay themselves! In addition in some cases a grandparent going on holiday will not be a restful or fun experience if it’s just an opportunity for unpaid child care! A lot depends on the individual families and their own expectations of each other I think

Notanan2, I agree that as a normal thing it's unwise to trust anyone who offers help; there's a present danger to old people from telephone, email, or doorstep scammers.

I think that a neighbour's local reputation is a safeguard however some neighbour who is kind, trustworthy, and helpful might also not be someone whom you want to have your doorkey and be 'dropping in' for a ' chat ' at any time when you may have things you need to do or just want to sit and mope, an occupation that everyone has a right to do if they so desire.

"How can relationships between neighbours be forged?" is a main question. I think that a suitably trained professional social worker would be pretty expensive for local authorities to provide. in my neighbourhood there is one woman who has those skills and a good reputation too. She has organised a neighbourhood once- a -week cafe for years. However my experience with this is that it was attended by a clique of old -established neighbours, and needed one of those hostessy people who get guests to 'mix'.

For the house-bound person the helper is easier to identify as they need merely to be honest and practical. The present level of carer help is dreadful and much more money needs to be spent on this at the cost of less essential services such as grass cutting in public open spaces.

Someone on this discussion suggested houses of multiple occupation with resident carer as is provided for other disabled persons. I think this is an excellent idea although I have not worked out the relative cost of it.

I agree with some of your comments Alexa there is always someone to typecast elderly people and assume they all want company and to be cheered up. Of course this is not the case, some people are fine on their own and live contentedly in this way. It's different if you have a health problem and require support but even then it should be a personal thing. I realise some of this is ideal world stuff of course.
I always remember someone advocating group living for people who had a learning disability because ' they are happiest with their own kind '. I do not want to be lumped together with other people just because we are all in our seventies.
That rather begs the question why am I on Gransnet of course.

That rather begs the question why am I on Gransnet of course

Because we’re a motley, varied crew with disparate, often opposing opinions sodapop

Sodapop, the properly educated social worker, OT, or carer should jolly-well be aware

"I always remember someone advocating group living for people who had a learning disability because ' they are happiest with their own kind '. I do not want to be lumped together with other people just because we are all in our seventies."

client -centred is absolutely necessary.

I'm one who would be happy, when the time comes, to pool resources with others in the same boat and share carers and living expenses. It's not a new idea. The Abbeyfield homes system worked well. Don't know if they're still on the go. My sister used to be a carer in one and 4 very independent older ladies shared a house but had their own little flatlets within it. My sister helped out with transport, gardening, organising social outings, generally whatever they needed a helping hand with.

I have been on lots of holidays wit Cs and GCs and mostly enjoyed it. I have also travelled on my own and enjoyed it. Now, however, because of annoying mobility problems, I would much prefer to travel with small groups of similar people to me,i.e. YOUNG sixysomethings, single but accompanied by dogs (pets or help dogs). Like the crazy old bat that I am, I refuse to leave my friend (furry!) behind and there must be more like me out there.

I feel the same as jane10.
I'm quite looking forward to finding a nice little community to blend into.

I rarely see anyone all week long, which is ok because I have got used to it, like my own company, lots of interests etc. See family/a friend as much as I can.

However should anyone think to ask people like myself [nearing 70 now] what would help us feel less alone...one thing I would suggest is that an empty shop [2 deserted banks near me, empty for months on end] could be used as a drop-in centre.

Anyone wanting some company/coffee could go to the drop-in when they were shopping. Teas/coffee/soft drink/snack could be available for a charge. A worker/volunteer/s would be needed to be there, plus a kitchen area and a loo.

The place could also be used for groups which would probably be formed...book group, art group, local history talks etc...whatever, at certain times.

Imagine if every high street could have just a small place to pop into. I'm sure every high street has an empty property.

Of course it's all about money. But if it could be funded somehow it could alleviate a lot of loneliness and increase people's general wellbeing, mental health and maybe physical health which is surely the object of the governments stance on loneliness.