The Minister for Loneliness shares her thoughts.....

No M0nica not you or me..though I am horribly incapacitated by a bad back atm. However I do know some folk ,who are quite frail , that do not see family for months..some for very legitimate reasons and some for less understandable reasons. Whilst we should not have children as insurance for old age if we have managed to create a positive family we might be lucky to be thought good company..even when aged!,

We both take our DC and DGC on holiday with us and go on holiday with them.

What I really object to is it being assumed that because I am over 50, considerably over 50, I am some doddery encumbrance that could die on them any day.

Last year I planned, organised and ran a holiday for 14 people in a big town to celebrate the 50th wedding anniversary of DH and I. This Christmas we have had 5 people staying for 10 days, including DGC. Once again I organised and managed it. I expect to do something similar over Easter.

So much for us being encumbrances that need to be tied like millstones to our children's backs and dragge dafter them when they go on holiday.

Anyone who remotely thinks taking elderly relatives on hols with them is a great idea should really be made to watch "National Lampoon's Vacation" when the family realise that Auntie Edna has died on them......

@Charliegirl5 you can come on holiday with my family!

A holiday is a special occassion

Its day to day that loneliness sets in, its really the small things that matter: people to have a cuppa with, someone to call for an impromptu walk if the weather is nice. Someone to discuss day to day stuff with. Someone who would notice if you were "out of action" for a few days

Not holidays

Anyway loneliness is usually for 52 weeks a year for a lot of people, not for a week or two.

A family holiday can be great, I've done it, enjoyed it...aside from the fact that a DIL thought a holiday essential was staying up as late as possible each night, drinking. Knowing the 2 year old would be up early and raring to go...I digress

What about the families who cannot afford a holiday? What about the older person who cannot afford it either? And loneliness affects many younger people too, those who live alone, single, divorced, no family etc. and are restricted from doing the 'normal' social things for one reason or another...health, disability, financial.

I also accept that a drop in idea is open to all sorts of problems, could be abused, have financial issues and face apathy/personality clashes/cliques in time.

My children grew up having at least one 'four generation' holiday a year. Time moved on, the great-grandparents died and my children had their own children, so the four generation holidays have continued. I absolutely believe our joint holidays have cemented the very real friendships my adult children have with their beloved grandparents. Now my parents-in-law are in their eighties and are more limited in what they can join in, so we all adapt a little - making way for the needs of babies and toddlers alongside the needs of the older generation and it works very well for all of us.
Although I do usually need a holiday to recover from our self-catered 'family holiday'.

I suppose its easy to imagine everyone being fired with enthusiasm and ready to pitch in.
The reality probably falls a bit flat after a while.

There was a community cafe in my area.... didn't get used much. They tried various things. Hobby days, repair cafes etc. Has now sort of evolved into just a normal cafe due to under-use although does still do free christmas day lunches for people on their own

Oh, that was talked about on a thread a couple of weeks ago, about winning the lottery.
I said that is what I would do, and somebody else said she is involved in a scheme doing exactly that in her area.

I rarely see anyone all week long, which is ok because I have got used to it, like my own company, lots of interests etc. See family/a friend as much as I can.

However should anyone think to ask people like myself [nearing 70 now] what would help us feel less alone...one thing I would suggest is that an empty shop [2 deserted banks near me, empty for months on end] could be used as a drop-in centre.

Anyone wanting some company/coffee could go to the drop-in when they were shopping. Teas/coffee/soft drink/snack could be available for a charge. A worker/volunteer/s would be needed to be there, plus a kitchen area and a loo.

The place could also be used for groups which would probably be formed...book group, art group, local history talks etc...whatever, at certain times.

Imagine if every high street could have just a small place to pop into. I'm sure every high street has an empty property.

Of course it's all about money. But if it could be funded somehow it could alleviate a lot of loneliness and increase people's general wellbeing, mental health and maybe physical health which is surely the object of the governments stance on loneliness.

I feel the same as jane10.
I'm quite looking forward to finding a nice little community to blend into.

I have been on lots of holidays wit Cs and GCs and mostly enjoyed it. I have also travelled on my own and enjoyed it. Now, however, because of annoying mobility problems, I would much prefer to travel with small groups of similar people to me,i.e. YOUNG sixysomethings, single but accompanied by dogs (pets or help dogs). Like the crazy old bat that I am, I refuse to leave my friend (furry!) behind and there must be more like me out there.

I'm one who would be happy, when the time comes, to pool resources with others in the same boat and share carers and living expenses. It's not a new idea. The Abbeyfield homes system worked well. Don't know if they're still on the go. My sister used to be a carer in one and 4 very independent older ladies shared a house but had their own little flatlets within it. My sister helped out with transport, gardening, organising social outings, generally whatever they needed a helping hand with.

Sodapop, the properly educated social worker, OT, or carer should jolly-well be aware

"I always remember someone advocating group living for people who had a learning disability because ' they are happiest with their own kind '. I do not want to be lumped together with other people just because we are all in our seventies."

client -centred is absolutely necessary.

That rather begs the question why am I on Gransnet of course

Because we’re a motley, varied crew with disparate, often opposing opinions sodapop

I agree with some of your comments Alexa there is always someone to typecast elderly people and assume they all want company and to be cheered up. Of course this is not the case, some people are fine on their own and live contentedly in this way. It's different if you have a health problem and require support but even then it should be a personal thing. I realise some of this is ideal world stuff of course.
I always remember someone advocating group living for people who had a learning disability because ' they are happiest with their own kind '. I do not want to be lumped together with other people just because we are all in our seventies.
That rather begs the question why am I on Gransnet of course.

Notanan2, I agree that as a normal thing it's unwise to trust anyone who offers help; there's a present danger to old people from telephone, email, or doorstep scammers.

I think that a neighbour's local reputation is a safeguard however some neighbour who is kind, trustworthy, and helpful might also not be someone whom you want to have your doorkey and be 'dropping in' for a ' chat ' at any time when you may have things you need to do or just want to sit and mope, an occupation that everyone has a right to do if they so desire.

"How can relationships between neighbours be forged?" is a main question. I think that a suitably trained professional social worker would be pretty expensive for local authorities to provide. in my neighbourhood there is one woman who has those skills and a good reputation too. She has organised a neighbourhood once- a -week cafe for years. However my experience with this is that it was attended by a clique of old -established neighbours, and needed one of those hostessy people who get guests to 'mix'.

For the house-bound person the helper is easier to identify as they need merely to be honest and practical. The present level of carer help is dreadful and much more money needs to be spent on this at the cost of less essential services such as grass cutting in public open spaces.

Someone on this discussion suggested houses of multiple occupation with resident carer as is provided for other disabled persons. I think this is an excellent idea although I have not worked out the relative cost of it.

I agree M0nica I am a Grandmother but in my 50’s so nowhere near retirement age and I don’t consider myself elderly. I am still working and have a life of my own as many people still do even after they become grandparents! I also don’t see the minister explaining how the young families are supposed to afford to pay for the grandparent to go on holiday with them or make assumptions that the Grandparent could afford to pay themselves! In addition in some cases a grandparent going on holiday will not be a restful or fun experience if it’s just an opportunity for unpaid child care! A lot depends on the individual families and their own expectations of each other I think

Rental accommodation is so unstable these days, people renting may have to move every 6-12 months through no fault of their own because their landlord is selling/intrusive/wants the home back to live in/upping the rent.

Helpful neighbours need to be trusting neighbours. You wouldnt want someone you only met last month taking your cash on the promise of returning with groceries!

While the market makes for such insecure living, how can relationships between neighbours be forged?

Lumarei, I have searched for such an organisation and cannot find one. Age Concern (AgeUK)in my town has no such organisation. The local Methodist church did put people in touch and introduced me to two old people. One old lady dismissed me as I was an atheist, and the other had more facilities than I had myself .
I am aged eighty seven now and have known for many years that old people , same as young people, are choosy about who we want to befriend.

Your practical suggestions are good. I myself have many friendly neighbours and have been invited to phone them if I need anything. However many neighbourhoods are not like the working class, semi- detached, council house one where I live, and there is a need for a professional worker to organise help in many neighbourhoods.

IMO the loneliness issue is not about age at all. Everyone is in their little pigeon holes like worker bees... but few people have the time or money to do much to enrich their lives.

Lumarei All these things are very good suggestions where people are disabled and frail, regardless of age. It is simply asking people to be neighbourly (and their will be apple pie for tea)

What is so insulting about the minister;s message was the way she lumped all older people (these days generally defined as over 50) in this category, regardless that many are fit and healthy, that the younger ones still have 20 years of work ahead before they can retire and probably have parents still living who may or may not need help.

I am fed up with self congratulatory Ministers, who think wafting around with metaphorical wand in hand making bland statements like this, unfocused and with no direct action, or budget on their part can be passed off as policy and a government responding to the needs of the community

Greengran That was the Italian way, but like every other European country, it is changing.

Same goes for these cultures we are supposed to be more like: its mostly the women doing it!

My mother cared for her MIL and then FIL with her SIL, her 3 BILs had plenty of opinions and popped in but did not do any of the washing or dressing or pad changing at the end.

My mother and her SIL were however able to do so because one was a stay at home mum and the other worked part time.

Now that "getting by" requires 2 full time incomes these free family carers are simply not available.

And I know that caring is a bit different to addressing loneliness but theyre both symptoms of the same thing. There is no family time any more. No weekends off together to go see the wider family etc.