Cell phones

It seems posters with any direct experience of life in prisons are united in disagreeing with the view that they're holiday camps. No they aren't, not at all. Life in prison is grim for inmates and can be a challenge for the civilians and prisons officers who work there.

Where does this opinion come from, that any poster who favours constructive and compassionate treatment of everyone in our society, including offenders, is a 'left wing do gooder'. We imprison far too many offenders. Many men and women in our prisons have mental health problems or at the lower end of the IQ scale, so find life more difficult than the majority of us do.

If land lines improve the outcomes for prisoners and have the advantage of making prisons easier places to manage, that seems a good thing.

I've visited many violent offenders in prisons. Away from drugs/alcohol and the pressures they face in their out of control lives, these men sign up for any classes going. They show their certificates of achievement in education, in being drug free with great pride. These men are human beings like the rest of us. They've mostly had grim experiences as children or in early adult life, so been disadvantaged from the start.
As for the women's prisons, they're full of women with histories of abuse experience. As with the male prisoners, drugs and alcohol alongside mental health problems prevail. We need a look at our society rather than simply reacting so strongly against an idea that those who know more than we do, suggest may be a positive.

Agreed iam64 prisons are full of damaged people , who have been brought up in the “care” system, have mental health isssues, are products of disfunctional families, are victims themselves in many ways, or any combination of the above. Not to say those guilty of dangerous , violent offences shouldn’t be locked up , they should, but they should be treated humanely when they are there. Prison officers should be well trained, well paid and have decent working conditions too.

That must be most comforting for the victims.
If I was a victim I would feel ashamed of myself, putting such people through such horrors for actions they themselves chose to carry out.

holding - if you have never been a 'victim', you've been extremely fortunate in your life.

I thought the days of ‘lock em up and throw away the key ‘ was over, seems not.

I have had various cars nicked.
Nothing too serious, and I wished love and best wishes to the thieving souls, who probably suffered trouble with potty training in their teens which caused them to take the path, or should it be road? that they did.

?

People are sent to prison “as” punishment , fair enough, but are they sent to prison “for”punishment? Or should we be aiming to at least try to rehabilitate some of those people to avoid further victims?

dizzyblonde EllaKeat Thank goodness for your contributions of actual experience and not as pp have said the ravings of Daily Mailodrama etc. These newspapers do untold damage with their lies and exaggerations - swallowed whole by the gullible. GabriellaG54 Keep debunking the misinformed! It is good to hear an authoritative opinion on the phone issue and I am beginning to be swayed....but I still want more staff and improved training. Btw which phone company might be involved? Or is that a state secret? Prob one connected to G4S...? Or is that too cynical?

Parole lies very much on people admitting and being contrite about their crime. I know somebody who fought for years against a sentence for killing his terminally ill wife. His wife had been ill for years and he had a girlfriend he later married. However, when the marriage broke up she made some claims about murder and he was found guilty. He had a young son so when that son grew up and started his own family, he decided to give up his fight of innocence otherwise he wouldn't get to see his grandchildren grow up either. He did way beyond what any other "murderer" would have served because he really didn't want to admit to something he hadn't done. I don't know whether he was innocent or guilty but it did seem odd that his legal team were unable to get to the bottom of some important legal documents in order to prove his innocence.

Hi all, this is my first post on here, generally, I have 'stalked'. I am a criminologist who specialises in researching male prisons in E&W. Quizqueen - your post describes accurately the majority of prisons in E&W: prisoners are locked up for 22 hours per day across the country due to staffing shortages, the only way your post was wrong was by saying 'given suitable reading material about people who have made the best of their lives' the majority of prisoners are incarcerated for petty crimes, a lot have mental health issues, poor educational standards and are serving short-term sentences for lack of community-based programmes to rehabilitate - they are not violent criminals, yes, some are, but the majority are not. They are not prolific criminals, yes some are, but the majority are not. For example, there are 66 women in prison as of 2017 in England for non-payment of council tax: there are no female prisons in Wales so any Welsh woman incarcerated would be so miles from family and home. This is poverty, not a crime, yet criminalised. I would consider it an insult to give prisoners reading material on those that have made it in life, given not everybody has equal opportunities and inequality is a large reason we have crime in society. Studies show that contact with family can help rehabilitation, this is why volunteer services run family days in prisons, moreover, if we treat people with disdain then we can expect to be treated the same way in return - how we treat those we lock up is an indication of what society we reside within - our prisons are dangerously overcrowded, understaffed, rife with drugs and violence to stave off the boredom and disappointment prisoners feel about themselves and their lives. Resettlement issues are rife, no help is given, or indeed, very little despite common consensus. Nobody should compare prisoners 'care' to care for the elderly or any other form of care as they are two separate issues with the only commonality being how poorly funded public services currently are - your anger is better placed directed to Government than it is prisoners when it comes to care. Prisoners are dying, in 2017 alone over 200 prisoners died in E&W because of suicide and/or lack of access to health services. Prison is not, as popular thought appears to be, a holiday camp. You do not have to agree with me, you do not have to accept what I am saying - but being a human being affords us all compassion and we second chances, indeed, third chances if necessary - would you not want both if you ever found yourself in prison, and do not think that it could not happen to you - it could happen to anybody. Respect. Even for those who we deem to be ''the other''.

Threebats, don't you think it's high time that the CCRC pulled their finger out ? Maybe we'd have at least 500 inmates freed if they bothered to read those cases which appear to be MOJ's.

Because of a lack of outside contact where there is a possible MOJ what is a "suspected " criminal supposed to do to try and fight his case ? As in withheld/fabricated evidence. They don't stand an earthly.

What is E&W please?

Will they be allowed to accept incoming calls?

I am against phones in cells because I don't think prison officers will be able to monitor the calls, that just won't be the top priority.

No one seems to have mentioned that prison sentences are also supposed to deter others from committing crime. I would like to think that when they find out who was flying drones over Gatwick the sentence will reflect the harm done in order to prevent copycats.

Ellen I believe you. There are numerous instances of the police getting it wrong, sometimes deliberately. I suspect the person in prison is still there because they won't admit the crime so won't get early release. No, I haven't a clue who it is and really don't want to know but you sound like you know what you are talking about.

I’ve only skim read this thread & instantly I thought there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind prisoners should be allowed to have mobile phones. I can’t say how I’d feel if a member of my family was the victim of a serious crime that caused injury,or worse, that’s another story, but certainly petty criminals should be allowed a phone especially in cases of wrong convictions which do happen.

holdingontometeeth
I know who it is without recourse to Google. Thanks anyway

Vickixx
I suggest you read all the posts, then you'd be able to type an informed comment. We're not talking about mobile phones and the last few lines of your post show that you don't know what you're talking about.

threebats thanks for a post that is reasoned and based on something more than a knee jerk!
Of course victims of crime need support and help. It is not mutually exclusive to offer that and to ensure prisons offer a rehabilitation programme too!

Threebats excellent post.
I was actually in prison with three women who were there for none payment of Coincil Tax or rates or community charge - whatever it was called at the time.
One was very young, had two children, a boy and girl. She was one of the people i referred to in an earlier post who took her own life.
I will never forget her. She was a vibrant, lovely woman who just happened to be crap at paying bills. She needed help, not punishment, but at the time, 'examples'were being made.
I was on the 'good girls' wing. The only two people there that i met who were 'criminals' were a drug dealer and a mule (apart from me, obviously).
The drug dealer was a woman who, with no excuses, had sold drugs to support her family. In all honesty, i expect she will have served several terms since I met her.
The mule was the lovliest woman i have ever met. She had been beaten balck and blue by her ex husband. Never had children because of the injuries he inflicted. She escaped him, met a new man who treat her with kindness and a grrat deal of love. She went with him to meet his family in Jamaica. You can guess the rest.
A lot of the women I met were terribly abused, both physically and mentally and needed help quite honestly. They were not criminal. They were not bad people. They found themselves in situations where they did bad things. There is a difference, and whoever said 'there but for the grace of God' has it right.
Prison is horrendous. It is not a holiday camp. The problem is, it is better than the life outside for some people - and what does that say for our society?

I am so sorry, my typos are terrible!

Gabriella, I suggest you find a kinder way of informing me of things like this in the future,especially as I have a stinking cold & I’ve been coping by posting here more than usual & it’s also the reason I’m not on the ball today. My views about phones in cells are the same anyway although I understand now it would not be appropriate to allow mobiles.

Nonnie
In answer to your first two questions the answers are:
England and Wales
No.

EllaKeat, thanks for posting in your experience. it's clear that those of us with direct work or personal experience of prisons and the CJS know that prison life is tough.
So many women receive short sentences in prison for crimes such as shop lifting. The shop lifting is usually to feed the family, or the drug habit. Children lose their mothers, who is usually the main/only carer. In the absence of family members who are young and fit enough to take care of the children, they go into care. Often sibling groups of 5 or 6 will be split up because few foster carers can accommodate such a large group, especially when it happens suddenly. Small family group homes were largely done away with in the late 70's early 80's because the research showed children did better in families. That research of course hadn't yet had the opportunity to look at sibling groups, separated and sometimes never re-united.
It's just wrong to imprison so many people who don't pose a risk to society. shop lifting is an offence I'm not suggesting its a 'victimless crime'. It's an offence that would be better punished by high expectations, and support, on drug/alcohol/mental health treatment programmes, alongside family support from well trained social work teams and family centres.

EllaKeat
Please bear in mind that not all prisoners tell it like it is.
The stories you hear are what they want you to know but there are usually more than 2 sides to the event that landed them inside. Not all...by any means, but a big enough chunk to reserve judgement.

I suspect EllaKeat is as aware of that as most of us Gabriella. Reserving Judgement on what some people say is a way of life isn't it.

You are right Nonnie. The chap who's imprisoned has always pleaded his innocence for the past 33 years------because he is !
A politician who knew nothing about the case apart from lip service from another source told him he'd die in prison and that was after serving life ( 25 years ) just to appease those who put him there !
I really can't believe it. Well I can in a way.

He's got over 8,000 supporters and a good legal team working behind the scenes as well as high-profile people.