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BBC survey

(50 Posts)
mcem Mon 04-Jun-18 16:16:58

I noticed today that a survey has been carried out asking folks in England how they feel about being English.
Do they feel strongly about their identity?
Are they proud or embarrassed to be English?
Without commenting inappropriately, since I 'm a Scot, I wonder how GNetters might feel.

I was really surprised to hear that 45% of 18-24 year-olds don't have strong feelings about being English and would guess that figure would be much higher if young Scots were asked about their feelings of Scottishness.
75% of the over-65s felt strongly about being English.

Iam64 Mon 04-Jun-18 19:04:28

I'm English with Irish/Welsh distant ancestors. I could ramble on about why I love England (and Scotland, Ireland and Wales) - I identify as English. this is a beautiful country with a proud heritage which I feel is often overshadowed by us apologising for eg. the Empire.
I'll apologise for England (!) so far as the Iraq war is concerned. I would like to see a more grown up discussion about issues many describe as shameful, the Empire for example.
Other European countries were also Colonian powers. The lasting legacy for all those countries is reflected in their more diverse populations. I'm not defending the indefensible but I wish we could have a less polarised discussion on why it's possible to love your country, as I do, without being accused of being overly patriotic.

SueDonim Mon 04-Jun-18 19:08:59

sad Cherrytree. Even so, one would have hoped that the younger generation would be more open-minded than our generation.

It's better where we live now, as people are less parochial than where we were before.

varian Mon 04-Jun-18 19:14:04

I live in England, but identify as Scottish, British and European. I have noticed that most English folk will tell you they had a Scottish granny, or possibly a Welsh or Irish granny. These days quite a lot of folk in England have a granny who was Indian, Jamaican, Polish or French. They are still happy to be British. We have more in common than that which divides us.

SueDonim Mon 04-Jun-18 19:25:32

My mother is Welsh, Varian. My father was born in S Africa, of British and Dutch parents. Moving back generations, there is also French, Portuguese and Bengali blood.

One of my daughters is constantly asked if she's foreign. confused

Eloethan Mon 04-Jun-18 19:49:41

I think of myself as British, not English.

I am neither proud, nor ashamed, of being British.

I am glad that I live here and believe that, along with the benefits and rights I have in living in a relatively pleasant country, I also have responsibilities to contribute to it in practical ways. I am not keen on overt nationalism - flag waving, patriotic song-singing and the like - nor on the notion of "my country, right or wrong" - I think it is right to campaign and protest if you think something is unjust. But I think that respecting the environment, other people and great institutions like the health service, is a more important way of valuing where you live.

maryeliza54 Mon 04-Jun-18 21:42:25

Iam I really can’t get my head round the concept of ‘loving’ my country. I was born here - nothing to do with me. What I have trouble with - and it’s demonstrated on GN is that if you criticise the country or the RF you are practically accused of treason and told you should leave tbe country. I find so many ( not you) are so uncritical in their patriotism. Re issues like the Empire and our Colonisl past - - I don’t feel that I neeed to apologise for it but I do feel it behoves us all to try and understand the legacy it has left. There was a recent thread about ‘colour’ and I was really shocked at the number of posters who didn’t understand the historical issues that so clearly inform how many black prople feel about why it matters to identify as black and the impact of centuries of racial oppression and disadvantage. IME some of the most ‘patriotic’ of people ( here and in RL) have the least understanding of these issues. I’m afraid I still subscribe to the saying that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Iam64 Mon 04-Jun-18 22:17:35

Maryeliza, I won’t go on about what led me to express love for my country. It’s tied up with love of family.
I agree with you that we need to try to understand the legacy left by the Empire and our Colonial history.
The level of ignorance is worrying. It’s evident that some Leave voters in former cotton towns like mine, believ d their vote would stop immigration from Pakistan, depressing.

maryeliza54 Mon 04-Jun-18 22:26:59

Well there’s ignorance of the facts of immigration and that’s widespread but there’s also even worse the ignorance of past black oppression and its reasons and a total lack of any attempt to even try to understand issues black people have faced and still face ( and I’m not talking about immigrants here).

goldengirl Tue 05-Jun-18 11:10:43

I think of myself as British as I've got Welsh and Aussie blood as well as English. I live in England but in my view that doesn't make me English although that is my native tongue.

Anniebach Tue 05-Jun-18 11:14:27

I never think of myself as British, not because I have a problem being British I am British but never refer to myself as British , never have.

hildajenniJ Tue 05-Jun-18 11:27:48

I grew up in Cumberland, before it became Cumbria and incorporated Westmoreland and part of North Lancashire. I regard myself as English.
We went on holiday to Blackpool in the late 1960's, and stayed in a small guest house. Two older ladies from southern England were puzzled by our accent, and asked us if we were Scottish or Welsh! We were rather taken aback and replied that we were English, but had to explain where we were from, which was only 13 miles from the Scottish borders. In later years I understood their confusion.

yggdrasil Tue 05-Jun-18 11:31:23

I was born in England, but never think of myself as English. Only one of my grandparents was English, one was Scottish, one was French and one was British due to living (and dying) during the days of Empire.
I am British, European and human. If asked my ethnicity, I usually tick 'Other' :-)

Mapleleaf Tue 05-Jun-18 12:19:18

I refer to myself as English, and am proud to do so - but even more proud of being a Yorkshire lass!!! ???

annodomini Tue 05-Jun-18 13:07:14

75% Scottish with one English grandparent. Interestingly, Ancestry DNA showed nothing more than British/Northern European except for 4% Iberian which we think might confirm the belief that Spaniards who came ashore when the Spanish Armada came to grief settled on the West Coast of Scotland. Sorry - that's a digression. I am proud to call myself Scottish, British and European.

PamelaJ1 Tue 05-Jun-18 13:16:37

I always thought of myself as British. Unlike my best friend, a Scot, our family went back to the UK when we went on leave. Her family went back to Scotland.
I now find myself describing myself as English. A lot of the Scots ( I haven’t said all of them!) make such a point of not wanting to be connected to us that it’s almost a defensive stance.
Bit childish really, if you don’t want to be my friend then I don’t want to be yours.

yggdrasil Tue 05-Jun-18 17:54:20

Mapleleaf said: I refer to myself as English, and am proud to do so - but even more proud of being a Yorkshire lass!!!

I think this is the answer, there are no English as such. We nearly all identify with a county or region, rather than the whole country.
Gives much more relevance to regional parliaments

Mapleleaf Tue 05-Jun-18 21:46:08

Well, no, not really yggdrasil. Not for me personally, anyway. I am proud to be English and see myself as such, but as far as the part of England I hail from, I'm even more proud of that. I would imagine, though, that whether you are English, Welsh, Scots or Irish, you are probably very proud of the part of that country you come from and that that part is closest to your heart. For me, I'm not interested in regional parliaments but adore the county I come from. ?

paddyann Tue 05-Jun-18 23:34:44

Sorry to hear that Suedonim its not something I hear often ,Most of us are used to people from all over Europe and England.My SIL is from the south of England and has never had any problems with his accent or nationality since he came here 9 years ago.He would never move back south and is quite irritated that his parents wont move up to be closer to him and their GC.Of course there are bigots everywhere ...as to not wanting to be "friends"PamelaJ1 I think you'll find we're very happy to be FRIENDS its Westminster we dont want.Surely better to have good friends and neighbours then reluctant masses told what to do by people who dont know anything about us and care even less.85% of MP's in WM are English .Do you think THEY would be happy if the shoe was on the other foot?

SueDonim Wed 06-Jun-18 00:11:35

Anti-English bias is prevalent in some areas of Scotland, Paddyann. You only have to witness an England v Scotland sports event to see that. 'Anyone but England to win.'

I don't know how long one needs to live in Scotland to be accepted as one of their own. It'll be 40 years (and three Scots-born children) for me next year.

It's better where we live now, though, friendlier and more cosmopolitan.

PamelaJ1 Wed 06-Jun-18 06:16:25

But paddyann you also have Nicola Sturgeon and the rest of your Scottish Parliament. Don’t they do anything?

absent Wed 06-Jun-18 06:22:56

Why would anyone be proud to be English, or Scots, or Greek, Chilean or New Caledonian? Your nationality is acquired, as a rule, simply by the place you are born which, quite clearly, is not a choice. You can, I suppose, have pride in the country where you live, even if you are not a national, but I would expect you to have achieved something – however small – that made that country better. Otherwise, why should YOU be proud?

pollyperkins Wed 06-Jun-18 07:03:36

I agree with Elothean - very well put.

annep Wed 06-Jun-18 07:28:25

One category hasnt been mentioned- Northern Irish. People from N. Ireland aren't necessarily Irish. Just to clarify.

NfkDumpling Wed 06-Jun-18 07:42:09

It depends who I’m talking to and where. When abroad I’m proud to be English. Recognised as being English. But here in the UK I usually say I’m from Norfolk. I’m proud of being Norfolk. There’s so much resentment of the English from the Scots, Northern Irish and sometimes Welsh Assemblies and media that I feel guilty for admitting my Englishness. I would really like to be as proud of being English and the Scots are of being Scots, but it’s hard when the media are always pulling us down.