BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

When we approach any country after Brexit under wto they will definately have the upper hand as we will be desperate to initiate trade deals with anyone.

durhamjen
Your post @18.54. I prefer to believe professor Patrick Minford & Lawyers for Britain when it comes to trade.

Of course you would. Do you have a link to anything up to date, or just to the book about Brexit that he wrote over two years ago?

petra why?

"My understanding is..." is not fact, however much you wish it to be.

Well, everything we read in the media is an interpretation, possibly with an agenda. Even if you're sitting at the negotiating table, you can have a different interpretation than others in the room. There are very few 'facts' in the world, especially in political discussion That's what makes it interesting.

I hope lemon is reading that, then, primrose, as she thanked you for the facts.

"Critics of this government may want to portray it as a Wizard of Oz administration, skipping down the yellow brick road to Brexit. Under this scenario Hammond is the tinman with no heart, David Davis is the lion who lacks courage (to launch a leadership bid) and Boris is the scarecrow with no brains (not least in reading scripts about Brits in Iranian jails). May meanwhile, is portrayed as the Wicked Witch of the West.

The truth however may be much, much more mundane. After seven years of a Tory-led administration, the voters are weary and want something to change. With no majority, no money and no certainty on Brexit yet, May and Hammond are boxed in. And in the Budget there was little genuine thinking outside the box. That ‘nothing has changed’ remains toxic for both them and their party."

Where was that from Jen? It's very good.

Huffpost. Can't find the exact article. There are a lot about the budget, and none of them helpful to the Tories.
This is interesting as well.
Of course Brexiteers will not believe it.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-21/airbus-u-k-warns-of-brexit-risk-as-china-covets-wing-business

Found it. It's in this.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/budget-2017-waugh-zone-special_uk_5a15eb87e4b064948072d3ae?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

Huffpost have certainly added to the breadth of news reporting Jen. Thanks for that.

It seems that some facts are more equal than other facts (to paraphrase Animal Farm) Primrose and I thought the source you quoted was more impartial than usual sources given on GN.

Thanks, I know exactly what you mean Lemongrove

The facts about the wings were given very early on as Airbus said the contract in Uk would continue until it expires and then unlikely to be renewed. There would no doubt be other Eu countries willing to build the facilities to take over without them going to China - also the logistics of getting the wings to Toulouse would be simpler - China is a long way when several flights a day from Wales and Bristol were taking the finished product with a very fast turnaround time.
The same has been said about a few other contracts from foreign firms - but worry not it is probably more scare mongering by experts!
Some of the things Hammond wants to do will be difficult to implement it seems - ie the number of houses to be built each year. And all electric cars are a way off yet - the industry are talking about making the existing engines cleaner. Electric tram systems would be good in many cities too but take a few years to implement. Bordeaux has a great system but they started it over twenty years ago and although a great deal of the system is finished they are still extending it in some areas.

I voted to leave and still believe this to be the best outcome for the future if our country/children. I do not want to be governed by some body of people hundreds of miles away who I don't even know.

All the trouble and boring discussion that is still going on is mostly being stirred up by people who wanted to remain and want to make as much trouble in the process as possible.

I find it very insulting when they say we did not know what we were voting for and mostly try to hang the whole blame on the immigration issue, no, its not as simple as that and neither are the leave voters. Also, most of the objections raised are short term issues and none of us were naive enough to think there would not be issues but took a selfless view on what would be best for the country in the long run and stand by that.

As for the remainers that say 'have another referendum and the outcome would be different'. Rubbish, lets have a General Election and every time we are not happy with the result, lets have another one until we get the result we want. It makes a mockery of the whole democratic process.

mrscustard

So we were told yesterday of the initial cost of Brexit -3bn plus 700million already spent. That is of course just the start.

We already know that U.K. growth is the lowest on Europe.

Our nhs can only have half what it asked for.

Do you think this is worth it?

But we do have a General Election and then have another one if we don't like the result. OK; it's not straight away but we are still able to voice concerns over that governments policies for 5 years and then vote accordingly. Very few things in politics are irreversible.

All the trouble and boring discussion that is still going on is mostly being stirred up by people who wanted to remain.

Why wouldn't they MrsCustard? They think it is the worst thing we could be doing, that it will damage ours and our children's futures and diminish us as a country. If you believed that would you just sit back and say nothing? Obviously not as you are still fighting the leave case.

Democracy happened on referendum day but has continued to happen every day since that. David Davis said that countries whichcannot change their minds “cease to be democracies”. I think we can all agree we still want to be democratic.

I am governed by people I don't know hundreds of miles away.

www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1123/922191-brexit-embassies/

Why does everything we learn about Brexit have to be leaked from confidential reports?

Tegan, we have just had two general elections in two years, so no reason why we can't have another one next year!

"A suspected Twitter bot that posted numerous pro-Brexit messages around the time of the EU referendum has been suspended after an investigation into Russian interference by The Times.

The highly automated “Israel Bombs Babies” account sent 1.55 million tweets after joining in September 2011, promoting anti-Israel views and echoing those of the Russian government on conflicts in Syria and Ukraine.

Analysis of the account, which appears to be based in London, showed that it also tweeted 492 times about Brexit on the day of the vote.

One tweet, viewed up to 6,400 times, stated that “UK and European citizens can be conscripted into Syrian war under Lisbon treaty”. It carried the hashtag #voteleave"

Just shows you shouldn't even believe what you read in The Times.

I know - why don’t we spend all the money that is being spent on Brexit on the NHS?
We could put it on the side of a bus.
It’s funny how Brexiteers say they knew all along living standards would fall, so in what ways exactly are people’s lives going to get better ?

Because they say so, suzied. Is that not good enough for you?

"Had Peston been delivering the budget this week, it would have contained a dramatic announcement on NHS funding. “Because it was overwhelmingly clear from all the evidence that the single biggest determinant of leave’s victory in the referendum was the promise of an extra £350m for the NHS. So I think it’s scandalous that the government hasn’t said: ‘Obviously you want £350m more a week to go to the NHS. And whether or not we get it from the EU, we guarantee that whatever happens we will put that extra £350m a week into the NHS.’ It’s absolutely scandalous that the government has not committed to that.” "

It is actually an excellent article with some good ideas. Theresa should listen to him.

www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/24/robert-peston-interview-im-not-saying-britain-is-finished-but-our-current-problems-are-not-a-blip