Death

Dying? Well, it happens. I just don't want to be pushed down the Liverpool Pathway, to die being denied fluid must be apalling, what an awful way to go. We've both signed lasting powers of attorney so that WE can have the final say over each other's where and how, rather than some medic who thinks he knows best. But then again, I intend to stay out of spite

I have a living will to state that if I ever develop dementia, or any other condition where I am no longer able to care for myself and speak for myself, I do NOT want any life prolonging interventions whether surgical or medical - with exceptions for anything like fractures.

I have seen an awful lot of dementia and care homes during the past 20 years or so (2 close relatives with it) and what worries me (from experience) is that by the time you are showing early signs, you may not realise that there is anything wrong, or even if you do, you will repeatedly forget. And if you did have a stash of pills hidden away, you would very likely have forgotten where you put them, not to mention that you had ever intended to take them at all.

Seems to me that far too many very elderly people with dementia are kept alive too long - stuffed every day with pills for this or that to keep them 'healthy' - for what?? - in and out of hospital, on drips and antibiotics over and over - because of the mindset that nobody can be allowed to die if it's at all possible to prevent it.

If a person with dementia is perfectly happy and contented, that is one thing, but from all I've seen over many years, so many are not. They are often endlessly anxious or confused or fretting about things nobody can do anything about - e.g. the poor lady of over 80 at my mother's care home who was crying and so distressed that her mother didn't know where she was - she had to get home NOW. Staff were incredibly kind, but nothing could comfort her.

GrandmaKT: What's the 'R word'? The idea of a Gransnet pressure group next time this comes up in Parliament is a brilliant idea, but does GN do that sort of thing? I don't have much experience here so perhaps someone can fill me in. Someone earlier mentioned the three main sites for pushing in this direction bu I think it is worth mentioning them again - Dignity in Dying, which is really limited to those who are terminally ill or have life-limiting conditions, Exit International, and My Death My Decision, all of which have lots of interest. The only answer, I think, is to change the law, but to do that we have to get it talked about as much as possible. Perhaps any of us who do decide to end our own lives as a rational decision, because we have had enough, should make sure we leave a comprehensive explanation which gets plenty of publicity.

Witzend I soooo agree with everything in your post, and it has been playing on my mind a lot recently. I do not want to be one of those poor souls -confused
,incontinent and distressed/ distressing , but would I have the nerve , or leave it too late to take my stash of pills?

Hollycat, sometimes, when end of life is approaching, the person's organs are beginning to shut down and can no longer cope with food or fluids.
I have often heard of relatives being very anxious that their loved one is refusing food and drink, they want them tube fed or put on drips, but as one doctor put it, 'They are not dying because they are not eating and drinking. They are not eating and drinking because they are dying.'

I am worried. Recently, I have been showing neurological signs and worry I may have the same condition as my late mum. Am anxiously waiting MRI results. So yes this subject is very import as I fear what is in store.

My DF has just celebrated is 85th Birthday and has informed us he intends to die when he is 94 ! when we asked why 94 he told us that in his eyes that was long enough ! fingers crossed he gets his wish

Glammy54 That is so concerning for you. I hope you have support and someone to chat it over with. There is always Gransnet here to share and listen if you feel you want to start a different thread. Big hugs.

There is no doctor anywhere that will help send you on your way, now or ever. Choice of death day will never be consented to. My opinion is if you suffer with some horrendous illness like motor neurone for instance the decision to put yourself to the deep sleep should become lawful, but in this country the government will never pass this law.

On the subject on funerals, as they are so expensive and if money is tight, do you have to have a wake, or would the guests think badly of next of kin for not arranging one.Such a problem for some people.

Thank you Lazigirl - your words mean a great deal. I was feeling quite low and this thread resonated. It is very reassuring to know you are all here when/if I feel ready to start a new thread. Thank you once again x

I think we should be allowed to choose when we die and I don't believe we should have to be ill either.

AlgeswifeVal - why are you so convinced that our government will never pass a law to make it legal to choose your own time of death? Other countries have done it.

Death is not the horror or even the subject of this discussion – but dying may be a fearsome problem.

What happens when older people come under pressure to end their lives because of the cost of their 'unproductive' lives and that their family are in need of their locked-up assets to house and educate grandchildren?

I am not talking about ill people, who will be particularly vulnerable but all those healthy people living self-sustaining lives in to their late 80s and 90s, but having to be paid pensions and perhaps needing medication for high blood pressure and cholesterol.

We are already experiencing the start of this generational hate. Young people asking why we were allowed to vote on Brexit when we will be dead within a decade or so while they have 50 or more years ahead of them (can they see the contradictions in this argument?).

Hard cases make bad law.

There would obviously have to be safeguards in place to protect those older people vulnerable to persuasion by their unscrupulous relatives.

I cannot see how you can protect the old and fit from the insidious drip drip of emotional blackmail and hostile public opinion.

Look at the the press coverage and hate generated by the Brexit result. How long can even a physically fit and healthy older person survive in a society that wants them to die?

Back in 1980 we moved to a farm wanting to keep our horses at home and have children. I now realise that generations of horse, ponies, dogs, cats, sheep and hens have normalised death for us. It happens, it is inevitable, but it really is worth taking steps to prevent it happening unpleasantly or unnecessarily...
For most people in our modern society death is not a regular feature of life. But I think that it is a price worth paying for the opportunity to share part of one's life with these people and animals!
We plan to by-pass the rip-off industry and simply not go there. We hire mini-diggers regularly to do jobs and I have chosen my spot.

MOnica. I agree with you. I think there are all sorts of problems around assisted dying, and whilst I don't think anyone would want to linger on in pain or with severely diminished mental faculties, I have reservations that adequate safe guards could be put in place to protect the vulnerable. I find Wilmas suggestion that you don't have to be ill either quite chilling.

Lazigirl my preference is far from where we are now, but speaking on a personal level I would like to see society accept death in a way it does not now. Not everyone wants to live as long as they can. You can be tired of living.

I do feel sympathy with your viewpoint Wilma but feel sad that someone would be so tired of living, although not ill, when possibly they may need help and support, not euthanasia.

I couldn't agree more. But when it is hard the right level of support year on year, it wears you down. I wish it was different.

GrandmaKT, you ask why I am convinced the right to choose your own death day will never happen. I may be wrong of course, don't think so though. Euthanasia cases have gone to law courts and failed, have appealed and failed again and again. My reasons for thinking this is, some scrupulous relatives might just take avantage. But mainly we are forbidden to take a life under any circumstances. It would be murder in the eyes of the law. I'm not saying I agree but this is not a barbaric country anymore.

Would you want to be the person to give the lethal injection if someone wanted to die? I certainly wouldn't want to be and I am a retired doctor.

I m afraid the whole system would go down hill like abortion where parents who find after a scan or other test that their child will be born disabled can find themselves under intense pressure to have an abortion and being told that it was wrong to knowingly bring a disabled child into the world. I read of one set of parents who were accused of selfishness for wanting to bring into the world a child who in an old fashioned phrase 'would be a burden on the rates'. Mostly these are children with Downes Syndrome.

How long before elderly people, especially if they needed a lot of medical attention, would be under pressure to opt for death because of the burden they would otherwise place on the health services?

Or pressure from family because they were using up the inheritance MOnica!