Are we seeing the demise of Christmas?

Rudolf Steiner on Christmas...

"Christmas is not a Festival of Christendom only. In ancient Egypt, in the regions we ourselves inhabit, and in Asia thousands and thousands of years before the Christian era we find that a Festival was celebrated on the days now dedicated to the celebration of the birth of Christ.
Now what was the character of this Festival which since time immemorial has been celebrated all over the world on the same days of the year? Wonderful Fire Festivals in the northern and central regions of Europe in ancient times were celebrated among the Celts in Scandinavia, Scotland and England by their priests, the Druids. What were they celebrating? They were celebrating the time when winter draws to its close and spring begins. It is quite true that Christmas falls while it is still winter, but Nature is already heralding a victory which can be a token of hope in anticipation of the victory that will come in spring — a token of confidence, of hope, of faith — to use words which are connected in nearly every language with the Festival of Christmas. There is confidence that the Sun, again in the ascendant, will be victorious over the opposing powers of Nature. The days draw in and draw in, and this shortening of the days seems to us to be an expression of the dying, or rather of the falling asleep of the Nature-forces. The days grow shorter and shorter up to the time when we celebrate the Christmas Festival and when our forefathers also celebrated it, in another form. Then the days begin to draw out again and the light of the Sun celebrates its victory over the darkness. In our age of materialistic thinking this is an event to which we no longer give much consideration.
In olden times it seemed to men in whom living feeling was united with wisdom, to be an expression of an experience of the Godhead Himself, the Godhead by Whom their lives were guided. The solstice was a personal experience of a higher being — as personal an experience as when some momentous event forces a man to come to a vital decision. And it was even more than this. The waxing and waning of the days was not only an expression of an event in the life of a higher Being, but a token of something greater still, of something momentous and unique.
This brings us to the true meaning of Christmas as a Festival of the very highest order in cosmic and human life. In the days when genuine occult teaching was not disowned as it is today by materialistic thought but was the very wellspring of the life of the peoples, the Christmas Festival was a kind of memorial, a token of remembrance of a great happening on the Earth. At the hour of midnight the priests gathered around them their truest disciples, those who were the teachers of the people, and spoke to them of a great Mystery. (I am not telling you anything that has been cleverly thought out or discovered by a process of abstract deduction but was actually experienced in the Mysteries, in the secret Sanctuaries of those remote times). This Mystery was connected with the victory of the Sun over the darkness. There was a time on the Earth when the light triumphed over the darkness. And it happened thus: in that epoch, all physical, all bodily life on Earth had reached the stage of animality only. The highest kingdom upon the Earth had only reached a stage at which it was preparing to receive something higher. And then there came that great moment in evolution when the immortal, imperishable soul of man descended. Life had so far developed that the human body was able to receive into itself the imperishable soul. These ancestors of the human race stood higher in the scale of evolution than modern scientists believe, but the higher part of their being, the divine ‘spark’ was not yet within them. The divine spark descended from a higher planetary sphere to our Earth which was now to become the scene of its activity, the dwelling-place of the soul which henceforward can never be lost to us."

From 'The Festivals and Their Meaning: I Christmas' by Rudolf Steiner

Actually, who cares? The connection between the death of the year and the possibility of the return of growth in the spring and the birth of a new family and hope for the world was always meant to be symbolic and has always been accepted as so by any thinking Christians.

I also think this belief in an interfering God is also completely cock-eyed. The bible says, if it is to be quoted, that Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and when they broke the rules they were kicked out to manage on their own. Hence the doctrine of free will. That humanity has hijacked the concept of God and used it to their purposes, to justify both good and evil and as a justification for rejection is an entirely different argument.

And anyway, Swanny, Advent signifies the period when the birth is prepared for, not at all the same as the date of conception. The conception is celebrated on the 25th March, the religious celebration known as the 'The Annunciation', which is exactly 9 months before Christmas. You were no doubt a 'newly aware' teenager, but not a knowledgeable one.

We care because we were told to go and find our own festivals, which we had long before Christianity came on the scene.

The Annunciation was very clever marketing, working back from the hijacking of the midwinter festival.

gillyanne - Hannukah Sameach!

Anyone in Brum?

theconversation.com/the-busy-romans-needed-a-mid-winter-break-too-and-it-lasted-for-24-days-69661

granjura, well it wasn't about shopping, sales, and making a glutton of yourself was it?

Interesting article though.

Whatever your thoughts are about where Christmas came from and what it means I think that to believe in something gives comfort to those in pain, those who are grieving and those who are at war. Better to believe in something rather than believe in nothing, whichever religion you follow.

Yorkshiregel,so religion being the opiate of the poor and the masses is wrong? Let people believe or not as they wish ,and celebrate how they wish ,its a very different world from when you ...and I were young ,accept that...but you are wrong you know,NOBODY is trying to change Christmas,in any way ,,I have never heard anyone say Happy Holidays other than in an American made film and I know that the spirit of "christianity" or just plain good heartedness is alive and well .There are people that I know who are working hard to give aid to families in difficulty and the homeless this and most weekends ,A group of young moslemms in Glasgow looking for more recruits to hand out parcels of food and warm clothing in Glasgow city centre ...they dont believe in Jesus ...they're just good people doing what good people do and they haven't asked that we dismantle ou r nativity sets ,or take doen our trees.I dont know where you live but if its that bad why do you stay there?From a non believer,a very Hapy Christmas and a Happy Healthy and Prosperous 2017

Just bought my local paper and it has EIGHTpages of schools nativity scenes so think you're definitely barking up the wrong tree Yokshiregal

From the British Humanist Association.

www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/bha-british-humanist-association/article/no-war-on-christmas-new-poll-shows-91-of-brits-celebrate-chr

I celebrate Christmas. I can't take the Christ child out of the equation. If I did it would be Yule and celebrate the turning of the year. Which is fine. Chill out and celebrate and stop overthinking. Glitter and magic and joy and presents and smiling people and good food. What's not to like?

Herod killing all the newborn boys?

I have never heard anyone say Happy Holidays other than in an American made film.
'Happy Holidays' is Daily Express inspired malicious nonsense
I too havve nnever heard anyone say Happy Holiday ,its and Americanism ,iisn;t it
I ve never heard anyone say Happy Holiday

Just me then? The headteacher of one of our local primaries in her end of term newsletter - "Happy Holidays to those of you celebrating this month". Christmas wasn't mentioned. There is, quite rightly, no hesitation in wishing Eid Mubarak to the 50% of Muslim families at the school. It's a great shame that well-meaning people suck the joy out of celebrating all of our festivals. The South Asian Muslim families I know have their Christmas trees up and were asking why there wasn't a school carol service this year.

So the winter solstice is not on 21st December , it on the 25th December ?

So the winter solstice is not on 21st December , it on the 25th December ?

Perhaps they celebrated from about the 20th December until the 1st January and the Christians chose a date in the middle.

Ah, googled Saturnalia:
Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival in honour of deity Saturn, held on 17 December of the Julian calendar and later expanded with festivities through to 23 December. although I also read that it concluded on the 25th.

Yuletide (Germanic) is 21st December and feasting was around then.
And 25th December:
It was the birthday of pagan sun gods including Nimrod, Tammuz and Mithra. Further, the Roman church, to attract the pagans into their fold, embraced December 25, in 350, as the date of birth of the Son of God, as a counterfeit to the birthday of the aforementioned sun gods worshipped by the pagans.

Something to cheer up ancient peoples in the dark months of winter.

As I thought Jalima, so the claim by the poster who is pagan that they were told to find
Their own festivals is wrong , in my opinion

Maggiemaybe I bought a couple of tea towels two years ago and one says 'Happy Holidays'; the other has a picture of Father Christmas on it and the Christmas tree pot is sitting on that one. The Happy Holidays one is in the drawer, relegated to wiping the pots.

Oh dear, did I miss a post by a pagan, have been out a lot; no, our neighbours had a Winter Solstice party one year, I don't know if they are pagan or not but they are very nice normal people who are very in tune with nature and the environment.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7aivTkmH8g

Happy Holiday!

That is the title of the song, not my wish to you

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Well, if they weren't sure of the exact date anyway, they might as well pick on one that pagans were celebrating anyway, in the depths of the miserable winter and to cheer everyone up.

Easter too.

The Annunciation is supposedly 6 months after the conception of John the Baptist so if we know the date of his birth it can be worked out by scholars but not by me this evening.

Someone may be interested:
biblelight.net/sukkoth.htm

it probably works out to September as mentioned many times

But - is anyone interested in changing it?

Surely the exact date of any old traditions doesn't matter, it's the celebration (or not) of it that matters.

My Shistsu practicioner is Pagan, I enjoy their spring festival, like tying ribbons to the trees which grow around a well just outside town

Oops, meant Shiatsu

is Shistu a dog?

or Shitzu?

Gosh, Shiatsu sounds energetic