How poor were you?

I've remembered our horrible coke fire and how difficult it was to light. We saved up and had a gas fire installed, it cost £20 with fitting. We were so happy the first night we just sat and looked it.

By the time I was born in 1946 my parents had suffered terrible loss. Three of their parents had died (they weren't particularly old. mid sixties and very early 70s) and mum and dad had lost a baby girl ten months before I was born. Dad couldn't settle after being in N. Africa during the war. They became increasingly unsettled, moved to a new city and became financially worse and worse off because dad couldn't find work. We ended up being emergency housed in a low rise council block. A very low point was one winter (the winter of 1966/7 when we woke up to find that the inside kitchen wall was a mass of tiny icicles. It was the first time I remember them being scared because although the kitchen wall was pretty it meant that the inside of the flat had a temperature of below freezing! Poor dad died at 56 and I'm sure the war and the aftermath was a contributory factor. Despite all this I was often very happy as a child and enjoyed school. We always had food on the table, and I enjoyed going to Jumble Sales with mum to find clothes. I had sixpence a week pocket money which I spent on sweets and comics. I was often cold but never hungry thank goodness and being hard up as a child has hopefully made me resilient to what life throws at me.

This is a fascinating thread, mainly because it illustrates the vast improvement in living conditions in about 60 years or so.

I was working as a social worker in Birmingham in the early 60s and visited some pretty poor properties, but still they were an improvement on some of the accommodation being described here; so the rise in living standards must have been pretty speedy after the war. I did however spend my weekends decorating properties for people in poor accommodation and we would often find it very hard as the plaster would peel from the walls as we put the paint on.

Our first accommodation when we married was a bedsit and that was very small. We were then very poor as we were both still students; my OH had no grant (he had had one to do a science degree, but went on to do medicine after that and he could not get another grant), but I had a grant from the Home Office to do a post-grad and was able to put my OH as a dependent on my grant application - I think that was why he married me! The grant was about £350 a year - I would save £1 for the weekend and it was enough to buy a fair bit of the week's food including a small joint for Sunday!

These memories are so interesting I feel that Gransnet should make a book of them all.

I know we find things to grumble about, but we really are so much better off and the definition of poverty has changed enormously. I think that our GC do not really believe us when we talk about our childhoods.

Anyone remember gas fridges? - we had one with ornate curved legs, like a piece of living room furniture. The pilot light was for ever blowing out when we shut the kitchen door!

Recently, I had a conversation with a young relative and we discussed the idea of the working poor. He regarded himself as being in that category.
He rents a nice, centrally heated property, smokes, runs 2 cars, has the requisite white goods in the home, has a plasma screen TV and the children have more toys than you can imagine. The fridge and freezer are full of good food and all the children have cupboards full of clothes and at least 3 pairs of shoes each.
What, in his view, made them poor, was the fact that they could not afford a holiday.
As previously mentioned, definitions of poverty have changed over time.

I have read the postings with great fascination and I share many of the experiences having grown up in the East End of London in the early 50s. Its rather galling now when people tell us how easy we had everything but its all relative isn't it. I'm glad to know my children didn't have the problems we had with poverty. I didn't starve and I had hardworking parents but certainly no holidays, treats or nice clothes. I remember how much we shared whatever we had with relatives who all lived nearby and the lovely occasions when we all got together a big East End family which has all gone now or those who are left are scattered far and wide. I remember being put to bed with several other cousins in a big bed with coats on and hearing the grown ups chattering and singing usually at Christmas. I try to focus on that rather than all the nasty stuff - I remember childhood solely in black and white no colour at all I find that strange.

Fascinating thread. What a treasure trove of social history.
We certainly weren't poor or at least not nearly as poor as some of the posters. Life in the 50s was not much fun though. Looking back we were a sad stressed household. Were parents depressed? I wonder. Food on the table but no extras. No pocket money. No sweets.
The only shafts of sunlight were visits to grandparents. Like others I lost myself in books. The world of Enid Blyton seemed so wonderful to me.
There are other forms of poverty than the purely material.

Ii enjoyed annodomini's 3 yorkshire men sketch.
It isn't the financial poverty that stands out in this thread, it's the number of people who had emotional poverty, or neglect in their lives.
I don't mean to diminish any of the stories here by commenting that whilst living conditions generally are so much improved, other aspects of tough childhoods are not. Some of us had parents who drank, or suffered ptsd because we grew up with the backdrop of two world wars. So many children today are living in households where adults are addicted or dependent on drugs and alcohol. The stresses on young families now are different but they're stresses none the less.

I'm the youngest of four, and I remember my mum telling me once about how they were hard up when I was born. They visited my dads parents and my nan hid a shovel full of coal in the bottom of my pram (remember those big old prays with the hollow bit under the mattress?). She had to do it on the quiet as apparently my granddad (don't remember him) used to say that if my parents wanted a big family they should provide for them, and not look for handouts from him. Not a nice man according to my mum.

Despite luckygirl's comments and others with whom I totally agree, I am finding this thread depressing, too much of a "misery memoir" and the Yorkshiremen sketch was a refreshing breath of fresh air.
So often what is being harked back to was not necessarily poverty in the terms of the day. Even in the 50's given that everyday life was hard, living conditions which we would regard as unacceptable now, were the norm for the majority of working people. Yes the doctors etc lived in nice houses and had cars, in fact I was regarded as "posh" at my primary school as we had a phone. My best schoolfriend lived with her sister and parents in a 2 roomed rented flat in the semi-basement of a house. Her father worked nights in the local Gas Works (I think) so he had the bedroom during the day, the 2 girls had it at night and mum slept on a sofa bed thing inthe living room. Theyhad a wee kitchenette and an outside loo by the back door but no bathroom. Did I regard her as poor? No way and she and her family would have been mortified to be classed as such. "Poor" people were much worse off. "Poor" was undernourished children, nits, dirty clothing, gentian violet for skin conditions, hand me down shoes and clothes which were the wrong size, dads who either drank their wages, had been wounded in the war and were unable to work or "malingered" while their wives went out scrubbing -all of which I saw or heard of at my primary school.
Not having money to spare and being canny didn't equal poverty, did it? Our parents didn't waste money and thrift was a virtue not a sign of failure as it seems to be today.
I realise not all the posts are negative and certainly not seeking sympathy, but if my family were to go back in time to our wee Scottish town in the 50's they would be horrified by "acceptable" living conditions and no doubt assume we were poor. But we didn't necessarily see it in the same way.

Yes - there was austerity after the war - rationing and so on. I remember thinking that if my Dad said "Waste not, want not" once more I might just leave home!

By the way, Dad's philosophy is very much ingrained in me now. My children knew that if they wanted to wind me up, they only had to leave some food on their plates!

Some of the wastage nowadays is very hard to reconcile and sticks in my throat: disposable items in hospital (mountains of the stuff), plastic cups/plates, masses of wrapping on items you purchase, disposable nappies (I know they are great, but....) etc. It is all Dad's doing!

ga I was once taken to be deloused too. Aged 7, called out of the classroom, put in a large van (alone), taken out of the van not knowing where I was, taken into a clinic that smelled of methylated spirit, treated and then put back in the van, back to school and deposited back into the classroom without a word being spoken to me. I, like you, never wanted anything for my daughter other than to be fed, clean, go on school trips if we could possibly afford it and just be a 'normal' child. I had no ambitions fo her to do well academically, I just wanted herto be like the other children.

Oh Katyk. What a horrible experience for a little girl.
I do agree with previous comments about thrift. This ingrained hangover from the war certainly cast a long shadow. Its been reinvented these days and is now called recycling!

I was born in a nursing home in 1943 so that must have cost money which my parents certainly did not have. They rented a small one bedroom flat in the centre of a small town in Scotland. We then moved to the country, 2 miles away to a "tied" house, 2 bedrooms and a bathroom but they could not afford to heat the water for a bath so I was washed each evening at the kitchen sink, the water being heated using kettles and pots of water. I had my own freezing cold bedroom.

My father was promoted so we moved to a 3 bedroom house- we always had food but used to huddle around the coal fire each evening. I had chilblains for many years. There was ice on the inside of my bedroom windows and the only time a fire was lit in my bedroom was for a couple of days when I was very ill (cannot remember what was wrong) but the GP carried out a lumbar puncture at the local hospital. I do not know if the heating was for me or him!

I always had smart clothes for Sunday church but outgrew them before there was any sign of wear. I was a latch key kid and caught the bus with my friends from an early age. My Dad popped home to light the gas lamp- I cannot remember when we had electricity installed.

My parents grew their own vegetables so that must have helped the budget. I was fed but rarely warm.

I used to think we were poor but reading some of the posts her I realize that we were comparatively lucky. When I met up with an old schoolfriend a few years ago,she reminded me that we had the first telephone in our street. ( I had long forgotten that). Christmas was always a bit of a let down though. I alwaus wanted a bicycle and never got one! I remember we had a lovely neighbour who came up trumps one year with some fabulously scented bath cubes by Helena Rubenstein. That was total luxury. But when I think of the number of toys, games and electronics that my DGC have now, it makes me wonder; was our generation deprived or is the current one spoilt?

Interesting post Katy. We used to go to the clinic to have vaccinations etc and the nurses there were the District nurses who remained girl tears so Jew exactly who you were. I remember some children needing to go to the clinic for various things and everyone knew they had been as they came back to school often with shaven heads and covered with gentian violet!
I had not seen gentian violet for years and then in 1976 my mother had breast cancer and after the mastectomy had strong radiotherapy which caused her skin to look as if she had been burnt and it lifted off in large pieces. A nurse at the hospital painted the worst part with gentian violet. A few weeks later she developed dreadful shingles on the treated area but they stopped at the line of the gentian violet.

Who remained there got years so knew exactly who you were! That will teach me not be in a rush and not check it!

My childhood was similar to others above, but not real poverty - we were the poor relations and rented a house at £1 a week from our gran on mum's side, in return for which mum had to help gran out with things and she slept overnight with us, going back to her cottage during the day. This meant us three sisters shared a bedroom, two of us in one bed. It was icy cold in winter with only a coal fire in the 'back' room downstairs, which we all huddled around, and I put off going to the (outside) loo until I could wait no longer. (Chamber pots at night). Dad got up early to light the fire before going to work and we brought our clothes down and dressed in front of it in winter - the clothes themselves having been under the quilt all night otherwise they would be damp. No hot water, washing in the kitchen sink, bath once a week in tin bath filled by a copper, five people using the same water, and emptying it with a bowl at the end. We grew lots of veg and fruit and probably had a better diet than people have today. When we got to secondary school it was a 3 mile walk each way, no school bus or taxi service as they have today. Homemade school uniforms that stood out from the school shop bought ones. ,Dad had bronchitis every winter (his chest was affected by the London smogs) and sometimes got pneumonia and was hospitalized and I remember a scary fearful atmosphere in the house until he got better. I left school to help the family finances rather than stay on to do A levels because dad had to retire (he had worked to 70). Mum saved sixpences in old cocoa tins and we had occasional coach trips to the seaside (we lived in Surrey so were not far from the coast) and, during the whole length of my childhood until I left home, on three occasions actually went on holiday (to the south coast) for a whole week which I think was due to us being helped out by our gran or a childless uncle. Entertainment was the radio and card games, or shove ha'penny, going for walks in the summer on Sunday evenings. All our friends were in the same circumstances. We knew no alternative, and were happy.

I thought it was just me but DaphneBroon I am so glad to have read your post as most of the things people speak of in this thread seem very much the standard of the day.
My parents scrimped and saved for everything and there was not any spare money but that was because it was 'spoken for' and being saved for a purpose. There were no credit cards in those days thankfully! If we didn't have the money for something then we didn't have it and because that was normal nobody made a fuss.
We also did most of the things mentioned above that almost everyone else did but it was certainly never spoken about outside the family. My mother would pull out jumpers and reknit them for growing children, clothes were unpicked and reworked into other 'new' garments. We grew vegetables and had many other 'careful' habits drilled into is. I still think that all those were perfectly normal and of the time.
If you were not hungry and had something on your feet you were managing alright.

The standards of today are much better than they were and so it has always been as each generation follows another.
To think that you are poor nowadays just because you cannot afford a holiday is still amazing to me!

My family was working class, with my grandfather working as a postman, and my father a Linotype operator.

We lived altogether in a 3 bedroomed 1930s house bought by my grandparents. We had a bathroom and living room with a largish kitchen. I was born in aNursing home -pre NHS -. However I did not experience the poverty some of the grans have described. My childhood was relatively happy, although my father was never enamoured of me and I inexperienced some unpleasant times (which I am not willing to share) -but I have some happy memories with friends and in particular an Aunt in Cornwall.

Food was basic compared to today, but there was a lot of fresh vegetables and fruit which was grown in the garden. I know that shopping was done every day and the weekend shop was brought back in one basket. It seems we could learn a bit from then!

In the living room we had a large square rug, on top of linoleum, and the same in the bedrooms. Mum used a mop to gather the dust. In the winter we spent all our time around the fire. Boiling hot in our fronts chilly on our backs. Going to the loo in the middle of the night was quite an experience in the winter.

I often think about the Arnold family who lived round the corner from us. They were really, really poor. There were loads of them and the mother was a toothless, ragged, haggard woman after bearing all these kids. They were all semi feral and with hideous teeth. We were all scared of them. anyway, everybody used to give them their children's cat offs. I made friends with the youngest girl and she was really sweet. She used to flinch if you raised your arm too quickly. My mum was horrified that I'd made friends with her and was worried about fleas!! Who were we to be prejudiced?? My dad was a German and lots of people didn't love like that! Anyway, when I went into Linda's house, it was practically bare, with bare floorboards. When we creepy into her front room, it was full of army memorabilia and furnished really well by her dad. No one was allowed in their except him. I found that incredible!!!! What a selfish, horrible man! We only had toys at Christmas and birthdays, but we were rich compared to them. I often wondered what happened to them all the boys were named after royalty, like Edward etc. At least being friends with Linda, I was spared their beatings but my brother got badly beaten and his precious Pringle jumper ripped.

They are /were my benchmark for "poor"

Being cold seems to be a theme running through these threads. Even though I was brought up in a comfortable home we were always encouraged to put on extra Pullovers rather than turn up the heating. No running about in a t shirt indoors in January ! I remember my mother buying something called Melrose (I think) for an elderly lady who had chilblains, I can still remember the smell.

We worked very hard to not get them but if we unfortunately did then we used Snowfire for chilblains. It is also useful for cracks in the skin etc and I understand it is still available.

I did not realise it at the time but in some ways I was lucky. When tiny we had a chemical toilet but by the time I remeber we had an indoor one with proper toilet paper.Our street was a mixture of well to do people , pretty poor people and we were in the middle . I was sent to a fee paying primary school while our neighbour's children were 50 to a class in their school. The large family next door to us had lots of children and I remember some of them coming to listen to " Dick Barton Special Agent " on our radio . We were the first to get a TV but my father hated to show off so we had an ariel on a large pole in our garden . By that time the people in the poorer houses had been rehired into council houses , it must have been bliss for them because I remember was he houses outside with big coppers to boil the washing and gas lights. We were lucky enough to go on holiday which was an unknow luxury for our neighbours . I really did not realise at the time how lucky were were but I might have swopped lives with some of them if I could have had a father who wanted and loved me .