Two 15 year old convicted of murder.

There has always been children who commit murder , no government can be held responsible

Whatever the reason there is something seriously wrong with those young people. It's totally beyond the norm of behaviour for two fifteen year old to plan and commit such an atrocious crime. I don't believe that people are born evil. Something affects their minds to allow this behaviour to be acceptable to them. Whether that is nature (some sort of mental condition) or nurture needs to be discovered and dealt with. We can't simply lock them up and throw away the key as some commentators in the media have suggested.

I think these two were just evil and I don't think any amount of good citizenship teaching would have changed that.

I appreciate what you are saying VQ but I do feel very strongly that given their ages they will be in and out of prison in no time at all and will still live the vast proportion of their lives in total freedom.

This terrible case cannot be blamed on government policy or lack of parental control. To suggest a curfew for kids (hate that word, by the way) because of this dreadful crime is about as logical as taking all cars off the road when there is a fatal car crash. It is a truly horrifying crime, and the age of the perpetrators does seem to make it even worse, but knee jerk reaction and finger pointing helps nobody.

The girl has been found not to have a mental illness. Psychopathy? I do think that she may well be a psychopath. This is such a seriously aberrant thing to cold bloodedly plan and do. In which case she may well not be released until its thought to be safe to do so.
Television culture seems to have something to do with this. All that vampire nonsense.
Her poor victims. Why them?

This was a truly horrible story, from what I did read I couldn't work out whether the two young people in question had some sort of grudge against the lady they killed and her daughter who appeared to be a lovely family. I also haven't read much about the backgrounds of either of the perpertrators, but it did seem that the girl was in the driving seat. It's hard to say what made them like this, but a minority of people do have a psychopathic streak. I believe psychiatric reports deemed them both to be sane. Reading about the aftermath of the crime it did seem that there was a complete lack of empathy with the victims which is a characteristic of a classic psychopath. I feel very sorry for the family members who have lost their loved ones. A very sad case.

I do not believe anyone with a healthy mind can murder . Locking up these children for sixty years or more? Hanging them ?

I know what you are saying Anniebach and I don't know the answer. I do not agree with the death sentence at all but I feel for the family of the victims. They should be denied their freedom for a VERY long time and I don't know how you would ever know that they were safe to be let out.

I understand Gilly, really there is no answer . Sutcliffe was declared sane then when sentenced they declared him having a serious mental illness and so he spent years in Broadmoor

Either these children have a psychological disorder or have been abused when young. I an sure I am not the only one who taught kids who were dangerous, even at 7.

A terrible tragedy for all involved, but without all the facts we can not understand why two young people would be so violent and twisted and able to carry out their fantasy by killing. A serious case review has been announced and we may find out more when the results are published. At this point we do not know what sort of childhood they had.

Some previous well known cases involving child killers have found that their dysfunctional and abusive lives have been a factor in the person they become.

No child is born evil. Some are born pyschopathic, all adult psychopaths started off as children. Whether this nascent psychopathy turns to violence and harm will probably depend on childhood experiences and who they associate with. Remember many, probably most people, with psychopathic tendencies lead innocent and blameless, if possibly selfish, lives, without ever harming anyone.

Hilltopgran, we do know something of their childhood. Both had a parent who disappeared when they were young. The girl's father just walked out of her and her siblings lives early in her life.The boys mother died when he was five. His father was an absent parent and the boy lived with relatives.

This crime happened because chance brought together to children with similar characteristics, which resulted in a partnership which, as has been said, was toxic.

Last night DH and I were at Glynebourne to see Mozart's Don Giovanni, on the way home we were discussing the character of the main character, an obsessive womaniser and came to the conclusion that he was a psychopath, a man who felt no emotions, and possibly was aware of it. The nearest he could get to feeling anything was through sexual relief, so he raped/seduced every woman who came his way - and then moved on. The similarities with this case struck us both. I find it significant that neither of these children was particularly moved by what they did, the horror could not reach them - and afterwards they had sex.

I do not know what can be done with these children. Psychological and psychiatric advisers will be involved in the process leading up to sentencing. But sentencing children like this, think Mary Bell and the two young boys who killed Jamie Bulger, is very difficult. Mary Bell seems to have transitioned out of her childhood torment and behaviour to a balanced adult life, but one of the Jamie Bulger killers has been recalled to prison several times for various reasons.

Cases like this will arise from time to time, but they are very few and I think inevitable, many of the children involved have troubled backgrounds, but so do too many many children, and they do not do anything like this, but neither of the children who committed this crime had shown, outwardly, any behaviour problems that could foretell to just what lengths their behaviour would take them.

I did read/hear that the girl said the mother "had it coming" so it would appear this awful crime was committed due to grudge.
Who would have thought children that age would resort to murder rather than the usual childish pranks.

A dreadful crime indeed, I do find it a bit strange that no where I can find does it say why they murdered this woman and her daughter. It does sound like they were very similar backgrounds and nature.

It is also very sad for these children's families .

The newspapers said the murder was a grudge but they were unable to divulge it for legal reasons. The papers also said that mother and daughter were buried separately, in separate ceremonies, because of a family feud

I have found on the internet that curfews are used in some countries what difference it makes I am not sure but they must have introduced it for a reason. Broken homes are a lot to be desired.
Under Iceland's Child Protection Act (no. 80/2002 Art. 92), children aged 12 and under may not be outdoors after 20:00 (8:00 p.m.) unless accompanied by an adult. Children aged 13 to 16 may not be outdoors after 22:00 (10:00 p.m.), unless on their way home from a recognized event organized by a school, sports organization or youth club. During the period 1 May to 1 September, children may be outdoors for two hours longer.

Children and teenagers that break curfew are taken to the local police station and police officers inform their parents to get them. The age limits stated here shall be based upon year of birth, not date of birth. If a parent cannot be reached, the child or teenager is taken to a shelter.

The majority of violent crime is committed by men, almost all sexual crime is committed by men, that's a real problem which we rarely talk about or even acknowledge. What about a curfew on men?

It seems very difficult to have a serious chat on here.

Why is that not serious? You're suggesting a curfew on all children because two children committed a hideous crime. I'm suggesting that if we want to have an impact on crime we look at the group who is committing most crimes, ie target the source.

And anyway Icelandic children are allowed to stay out until midnight from May to September, you say. Crimes aren't only committed in the dark!

Gardenman99, i think Iceland have the right idea.Although it didnt happen here in the U.K, young girl aged 15 was shot and killed in the U.S.A a few days ago, what i could not understand was why she was out and about at 4 a.m. What has happened to parental control ?

Gardenman, I do not understand your last comment, all the replies above seem to me to take this event very seriously.

The Bell, Thompson and Venebles crimes were committed during the day