How far should we go?

Lillie, we watched both of those programmes last night(probably the only ones worth watching), both fascinating."Repairing" pets is good as long as it doesn't go too far. Keeping an animal alive can be very selfish, but isn't it ironic that if an animal is deemed to be suffering they are allowed to slip away painlessly, but, us humans, nah, we have to suffer to the bitter end if we have one of those frightening illnesses that cause great pain and distress. Makes you think, doesn't it!

I think we should always push the bounds of research as far and as fast as possible. Some results of research are debatable (GM foods for instance) but one area of research opens up another. How we apply the developments is our choice.
Had we not researched nuclear fission with all it's problems, we would not be as near to nuclear fusion, which could well be the answer to clean energy.

My German Shepherd Vhari also had CDRM,horrible to watch as the disease progressed,bright as a button but unable to control her back legs eventually.Heartbreaking day for me when I eventually decided enough was enough for her,the vet came to the house and Vhari went peacefully ,lying on her favourite spot on the sofa,she was 11.My 9 year old Shepherd has EPI,another horrible horrible disease being controlled at the moment with diet and enzymes etc,hopefully in the future vets,breeders etc can work together and through screening etc these horrible diseases can all but be eradicated.

Last night's NF programme was truly incredible. 3D printing to make complicated body parts, even for the skull. There are so many clever, clever people in this world.

I then watched a different programme about the 80's, my generation actually, and it dawned on me that as computers, albeit simple, were introduced in schools during this decade, it's no wonder there have been so many recent fantastic advancements in medicine (human) by people in their 40's and 50's.

Back to the OP's questions, those dogs last night were living proof that we should go as far as we can with pioneering work.

So sorry to hear that anni

Feeling sad today. Poor little Lily cat who adopted us nearly three years ago, went on a one way trip to the vet yesterday. She had skin cancer and under the auspices of our wonderful vet and a load of cortisone we kept her going until the last week when she deteriorated badly. She had a very happy domestic life with us and was a little star, after a rough upbringing in a barn, so I'm glad we gave her that.

I really don't think animals should be kept alive for the sake of their owners if they are suffering or limited quality of life. It's heartbreaking, I've had to put down various dogs and my beloved pony, but I don't ever regret doing it.

AJ+ has an article on its facebook page about a dog who had his front legs cut off and was given prosthetics. I thought it was going to be one of those 'I wish they wouldn't' clips, but the dog immediately leapt up and started bounding around like a puppy so it was definitely the right things to do. I'm sure that it usually is though.

I have had spinal surgery and never a pain free day since, I would not get wheels for my dog or any other drastic treatment. It isn't natural for them.

I am also totally against this sentimental using of 'comfort dogs' as they do in America taking them to comfort traumatised strangers after mass shootings etc. Animals are not a resource, for us to use for emotional support in times of crisis (our own pets excepted of course) not are they there to be dragged about on wheels so that we don't have to face their (and our own) mortality.

My mother's dog had new knees and became a spiteful, snappy creature afterwards, who knows what pain he suffered.

Life is loving and letting go...............sadly, and for all of us.

We've bred, and loved dogs for ages, I can't imagine a life without animals they are such family members, at one time we had nine GS dogs all living together happily - we'd rescued three, as a friend, their owner,
was in hospital, then sadly died, - her sister was going to shoot them - , in fact, we stole them with help! Anne, their owner was delighted and ' let go ' when she knew we were caring for them. Anne Butler was a fantastic lady, having been a Fanny during the war, We miss her. Her dogs went everywhere, the name was very well known
amongst Police dog trainers.
One of our two remaining dogs has CDRM and we've bought her, her wheels, aka. Her chariot! I'm not sure how she really regards it, but when she's in it, it's move over Ben Hur. Obviously we watch her closely, and it s clear that she enjoys her freedom of cantering around, not quite in the same way, but, it's freedom. Inside, she's moved around with a comfortably quadruped folded sheet, and is very much 'queen' Ellie making her desires Very clear. Whilst she remains bright eyed and happy then we'll do anything for her that we can, we've had so many broken hearted times when we had to do the right thing for our beloved animals, fairly recently I had to let go of my adorable GS dog, Bear. His beauty was phenomenal, long, black and bronze coat, the kindest of eyes and walked with the gait of a Lippazana horse. He went down with an aggressively fast cancer.
You can imagine the pain. Luckily Ellie has been spared this and she has daft loved ones , our youngest son in particular, who goes the extra mile.
I've noticed time and again that the people I'm drawn to are always dog and animal lovers , perhaps it's the way that we SIT..
...

Ive never bred my dogs i get them spayed.I certainly think its immensly stupid of ordianary people most of them ignorant and thoughtless breeding oedigree dogs any old how for money

Our last dog had Degenerative Myelopathy. The disease meant that he slowly lost all feeling from about mid back to the whole of his rear end. There was a period of 2 years between diagnosis and rainbow bridge, but our vet was with us all the way with all check ups being made at home. Raj continued to enjoy life, eating, playing etc albeit with the help of a rear harness towards the end. He was in no pain because he had no feeling. He just got on with life! Don't get me started on castration or vaccines, in some cases they cause more misery and death than they cure or prevent. I'm sure I'll get admonished for saying that!

To lighten up a bit, albertina when we were little we had a budgie called Billie that was allowed to fly around the living room. My Auntie visited one day with her little Westie and we completely forgot about the Billie, who landed on the carpet and was promptly snatched up by the dog! All hell broke loose, but surprisingly Billie was alive. The next day we realised his wing was damaged, so very reluctantly my Dad took him to the vet in a little box. He came back with the box saying the vet couldn't save Billie and he'd died. I saw the box on the sideboard move and grabbed it saying Billie was alive and out flew a new budgie my Dad had bought at the pet shop! The new budgie (Bobby ) bit my poor Dad before he got it in its cage and was left with a scar. This talent for the dramatic moment has stayed with me and I am the butt of many family jokes!

As an owner of a much loved 10 year old big dog with problems in both back legs your question does throw up a lot of issues. We were advised by our vet that our dog could have an operation on one of his back legs, but it would be a big operation followed by weeks of recovery, which he thought would maybe be too much for him. Plus it would mean travelling about 300 miles and would cost a fortune. If he was a younger dog, we would probably have considered it, but as he is an older boy, and his other leg would probably develop the same problem ( another major op ) we have decided to just treat him with anti inflammatory and pain killing drugs. His breed has an average age expectation of 12 years so he is considered as being elderly. But it is not easy, we are constantly monitoring him for signs he is in pain and we dread the day we have to make 'that' decision. I think it is up to the owner and their vet to decide what treatments or gizmo's they need. I do know some vets will try to 'milk' the situation, but I think the majority of vets have the animals health as their main concern.

We've had 4 dogs since we got married 30 years ago and three were put to sleep, with the 4th dying suddenly at home. I can honestly say those days are the worst of my life, worse than the day my Dad died. The reason I say this is exactly watermeadow's point. My Dad had cancer and his death broke my heart. He was diagnosed and dead in less than a month. At the end he was like a skeleton and a shadow of the big strong man he'd been. But I could do nothing to help his suffering and or his humiliation as his body failed him, so his death was a relief. We could choose not to allow our dogs to suffer, but it's the hardest thing we've ever had to do.

Animals are amazingly resilient and the most important thing to consider is their quality of life.

We got wheels for our GSD when she couldn't use her back legs but agree that we won't do it again. She enjoyed being able to run around with the other dogs but the wheels were not practical in the house. Also the youngest dog realised to could knock her over and we had to watch him carefully - he was a little bu**er. You have to make your own decisions and only you know your dog.

Dachshunds are prone to back problems (my very tall son in law is too) but most of them are healthy and happy. When prolapsed discs do occur they usually heal with treatment, needing wheels to get around may be only temporary.
Pets are members of our families and people will spend whatever it takes to treat them. When they are finally put to sleep their owners agonise over whether they've left it too long or done it too soon because they have to make that decision. Most of us never have to do the same for a beloved human.

Albertina, What a co-incidence, I put a tenner on your friends dog at Romford stadium earlier this year.

I have a friend whose greyhound managed very well on three legs. Amazing really.

Re keeping pets alive. When my daughters were young I took our sick hamster Jadie Lady to three different vets trying to keep her alive. How daft is that !

Whilst I think the KC and breeders breeding to the KC standards must take some blame for dogs bred with congenital deformities I believe the person who takes a poor quality dog and breeds it with another poor quality dog for 'pocket money' is more harmful.

These are the people who inbreed, who don't have their dogs checked for things like hip dysplasia or congenital skull deformities. Who breed regardless of type or temperament .

These are the people who say things like ' I'll have her spayed but she needs a litter first' or ' it would be bad for her not to have a litter' .

Their dogs are often not registered or vaccinated.

im afraid unlike some of you if my dog couldn't get around I would have him put to sleep. We have a lovely cavalier who had back problems earlier this year and we spoke to the specialist about treatment, the first part of which was 6 weeks caged bed rest. I'm not sure if we had had to go down that route whether we would have. He's an energetic 3 yr old with the possibility of reoccurring periods being caged his whole life.

Luckily he's recovered but the thought of the decision that faced us still makes me shudder.

If my dog was happy in himself, but had mobility problems I would get him wheels in a second. However, I did a lot of research about them when we had our last dog, but they are expensive to buy and not covered by insurance (unsurprisingly).

Our 14 year old dog had a tumour on his upper leg which was benign and inoperable, but continued to grow until it started to interfere with walking on uneven surfaces. He was happy, active and healthy, apart from the lump growing on his leg. My DH built a set of wheels using plans on the internet, but unfortunately the tumour was in the wrong place for the wheels to work well. Sadly just after we tried this, our beloved dog had a heart attack and died.

All our dogs have been rescue dogs and insured, because vets can do so much these days that I would hate to lose an animal because I couldn't afford the treatment. We're fortunate to have a vet who is good at helping you reach the right decision when things get tough.

I am possibly going to have an operation on my spine, watching what Noel Fitzpatrick has done for some animals gives me confidence in having the op but somehow I can't help wishing he could do it for me. The man is an absolute genius.

I do not have a dog but the in-breeding probably "encourages" some show breeders to produce designer dogs to KC standards which I assume are created by the dog fanciers themselves.

Some of these breeders are using these animals for their own self glorification about being a top breeder.

I find it hard to believe nature would create dog with noses pushed so far back they can't breath properly or get spinal problems like dachshounds do.

Who overall is in control of these "breed standards" and how much do they consider potential damage to the dogs physical health.
A few years ago King Charles Spaniels were being bred with skull deformities by breeders aiming for what they think are the best shaped skull.

I do agree that over breeding causes a lot of problems that could be avoided -I saw a pug dog only the other day with a completely flat face - how the poor thing could breathe properly I can't imagine. As for wheeled contraptions, it's worth reflecting that animals don't worry about appearances, loss of limbs etc. - as long as they can carry on happily with life they seems to adapt to all sorts of horrors that would leave a human in a state of deep depression. A vet I respected said that there must be three things in place for a happy animal; is the animal keeping itself clean? Is it eating normally? and is it 'itself' - no strange behaviour. If those three things are present then they are content; if even just one is missing then look for a reason as the animal is unwell in some way.

A word of advice for other dog owners, we could possibly have avoided all our dog's problems if we had him castrated when young. A cautionary tale.

It's so difficult to know where to draw the line. Our JR had major bladder problems from which he eventually recovered. He then had some psychological problems which meant he wouldn't wee. We had to catheterise him 3 times a day on and off for a year. This meant he couldn't go into kennels or be cared for by anyone else, our life was quite limited. Suddenly he recovered and has been peeing normally for 9 months, touch wood etc. I am so glad we persevered with him although we did wonder at the time if we were doing the right thing.