Has Germany now changed? And France? And possibly Belgium?

Let me please start my comment with the statement; I'm a bearer of a German passport in difference to the fact I'm born and raised as a Prussian which makes a great difference.
Yes it's true Germany's economy ows a lot to the foreign worker who came for a stay of 5-7yrs from Greece, Italy, Turkey a.s.o. They all got paid on the German tariffication means the same as the Germans got paid. I don't want to mention the fringe benefits they received. The majority of jobs they were involed in didn't require any language ability ( show me and I learn it!) means nearly any member of the first generation that came here does't speak our language ( as far as it concerns the Turkish people). And when I say this than I talk about the time the English industry had its peak during the last century.
The situation of today is totally different cos neither the English nor the German economy and industry can do with unskilled staff. No, with that imigration program that's been set up by our government various problems for each individual are been predestined. ( The young and unmarried generation in special!) I keep an eye on that Brexit the Brits have voted for. The UK is a channel away from the Continent and the situation differs completely.
Let me put it my way; I would like to live my life like in times that have gone by.

deMichael - Prussia- now that was a long time ago.

Quote: 'Let me put it my way; I would like to live my life like in times that have gone by.'

to hope to go back to live your life as it was pre WW2 is really not realistic, is it? Here near the French Eastern border, and in the Swiss Canton of Neuchâtel which was Prussian ruled until 1848 - Prussians are sadly not remembered with fond memories, I have to tell you.

Germany - that is what I couldn't understand deMichael and others.
They seem to require skilled workers now because of the ages of the population is relatively old. Looks to me like a lot of babies were born after the war years, but not as many since.

I have found this link
www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/for-qualified-professionals/working/prospects/a-country-of-immigration
which helps me understand the situation better.

The situation in France does indeed seem to be quite different.
Anyone like to say why the french prefer small families?

Apologies. My second sentence doesnt make much sense. I was constructing it, but although I gave up on one aspect of it, I didnt delete it properly, so please ignore.

Lillie - your notaire's comments are the same as those of an elderly frenchman I was chatting to in our early days here in a DIY place. I asked him (naively I suppose) how the french regarded the british immigrants. He replied, more or less, no problem, its the maghrebs who cause trouble.
They're much more open about expressing prejudice here. ?Different laws?

obieone - the french and smaller families - imo the town dwellers are becoming materialistic like everyone else in the world. The country dwellers can't afford it.

Perhaps a 'lighter' angle on the topic. I am an Italian citizen (two Italian parents) but have never lived in Italy. In fact I have never not been an expat. I am at present living in Ghana but our 'base' is Brussels. This is where we come on holiday, for admin stuff, and between postings. It is in a sense 'home'. I landed here this morning, and was delighted to find that the new direct train line between the airport and my home is now operational. Lots of reassuring security at the airport. This is the one place in the world where I feel really comfortable...nobody bats an eyelid or says 'Oh you have a foreign name' or 'Why do you speak English with an English accent?' Or 'why isn't Italian your first language?' Or 'why didn't you teach your kids Italian?' There are so many people 'like me' who don't really find it easy to answer the 'where are you from?' question. the guys fixing the lifts in our apartment block are Polish, my concierge is Portuguese, the customer service guy who remotely fixed my landline this morning sounded Moroccan, the people at the corner shop are from Iran. I love it here.

Sounds good. And that you feel a sense of freedom from questions. And nice that you feel at "home" in Belgium.

obieone Germany requires more than just skilled workers, it needs younger people. You need to look at the bigger picture. The change in Germany's population is very uneven. The population in the countryside and the eastern part of Germany is reducing faster than the rest of the country. As the population ages and reduces, more younger people, including those with families, move to the large urban areas mainly in the west where prospects and services are better. The small towns and villages all over Germany are becoming left with older and/or less mobile people. The loss of families means schools and child care disappear, making these places less attractive. Banks and libraries close. Public transport disappears. The infrastructure disappears with the population, so Germany needs a wide range of people, not just skilled workers.

Germany has had plans in place to deal with this situation since 2011, but it's an ongoing process. There's mixed opinions on the plans, as there always will be with major change. One good thing is youth unemployment is much lower in Germany than in most other EU countries. The ageing and declining population problem is much more important.

Thanks for the insights.

Sorry Granjura, times I have and I had in mind were before we had the influx of migrants.

Come off it vonMichael-. Did you live in (the former) East Prussia? What about the pogroms of past centuries and waves of Jewish refugees being swept across from the East?

Well let me explain it please; Prussia is still alive cos we have Berlin, Potsdam and many Prussian institution like the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation.

To the current situation we live in; we owe ourself more than 6.5 million unemployed people. Why is that so; cos the majority of unskilled jobs has been eradicated.
Example; the assembly line work in the factories has been replaced by automation and robotics which I think that's the same in the UK.

I think you narrow our situation a bit Wilma. Young German couple relinquish of having children (out of various reason ). That's one point. It's true the elderly people live longer
and as far it concerns the former DDR its also true some parts of the new territories ( with agricultural districts )have a generation problem which can't be solved by emigrants. We get the fruit and vegetable supply from all over the world and at any season of the year similar to you in the UK. No, both the German industry and economy are on high level and have to compare with China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, USA and has not time until the young ones learn our language and get trained for the job. Despite all that we have a huge number of young and well educated people coming in from Greece, Spain, Italy a.s.o. and the Arab world will never become an export markets in the near future. Our situation now after after our chancellor has lifted the border looks like this; Germany is paying nearly bil.€ 5.5 for the integration of the refugees per year. Sweden, Norway, Danmark, Austria, Hungaria have closed their border cos they can't effort and support the influx of the last 12 month.

When I first said I would like to have my live back that I've lived before than just read what's going on in France, Belgium and Germany within the last 12 month. No, the British government has judged the upcoming situation in Europe very well and will (perhaps) take over a role model function for other countries in Europe. Who knows???

daphneBroon. well for a start they would have been white refugees. And before anyone screams Rascist, I'm just stating the obvious. And I would imagine they had a lot more in common than with anyone from Somalia, Pakistan, Iraqu, Iran, Afganistan etc etc.

Many white refugees were Jews and Muslims (Albania, etc) and vastly different culturally. Until very recently here in Europe. refugees who were Catholics were considred to be hugely culturally different- as when the italians arrived in the South of France or here in Switzerland - or in t he USA too. So were Huguneots and Menonites in earlier times- and Jews in Italy or England too (Merranos)... The concept of 'Christians' from all denominations is indeed a very recent thing. When my Protestant mother married a Catholic in the mid 40s- it was a massive scandal.

I lived in East Berlin for a few months 2 years after the fall of the wall- and the East and West Berliners felt like 2 very distinct people, with very different cultures- and found it very hard to communicate- they felt totally alien from each other.

Oddly enough Petra I believe they would have "stuck out" almost as much, especially the Orthodox Jews. Religion and religious observation, facial chsracteristvs ( in many cases) clothing, food, names, occupations. Jews were highly visible and when the general going got tough, they were the first to get going- I.e. be sent packing - or worse.
I know from family history as does at least one other GNetter (but sadly I have forgotten who) whose forebears came from the same area of East Prussia as my own.

vonMichael- where do you live now, if I may ask?

There are Huguenots Churches, Museums and even Churches (as in the basement of Canterbury Cathedral) in many places, here in Switzerland, in the Cape South Africa, and in the UK- it doesn't mean Huguenot culture is still 'alive' eg relevant to today's society- apart from its influence on history and culture. Prussia is gone- and has been for a long time. Harking back for Ye Old Days with pink coloured glasses it not really hepful in the present situation.

And Berlin has become massively multicultural- and like London, all the richer for it (although I think you might disagee).

Is this a British thing to expect a solution to a problem to appear in a few weeks? So the papers have another topic.

Germans are pragmatists and meet problems head on and do something about it. A lot of immigrants especially children have not even been to school, but we can't do anything about it except feed them and look after them as some will not be accepted but while they are in Germany they will be well treated. A lot of them are men and there has been talk of them neglecting their family responsibilities by leaving female relatives un protected in those camps where they came from.
obione - if your family wants to come to Germany and get a job then they must learn some German first for a decent job
Just like there are several Englands then there are several Germanys. the rich industrious South,home to BMW and Mercedes and Audi, and the flatter Northern states where there is a lot of unemployment and the cities which have their foodbanks.

Not splitting hairs Margaretx I did a tour of the Mercedes factory in Bremen - North Germany to pick up my car. Our son also visited the VW factory in Wolfsburg - North Germany so I assume there are thriving industrtes in the north too.
The point is most of these immigrants don't speak German, don't have the Western work ethic and are nowhere near being highly skilled mechanics. Maybe Germany will have to start from the beginning with the children in school, but that won't slove the corrent problem for a decade or two.

Wolfsburg - South Germany surely?

I am not a geographer, Daphne, but I am a lecturer and translator of German, and Wolfsburg is in Niedersachsen - Im Nordwesten der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

OP's there was me thinking it was somewhere near Stuttgart
Maybe I was thinking of Augsburg!!

How did I guess you might be a lecturer ?

vonMichael thank you for your comments.

Margaretx pragmatic was the word I used in my first post too. Apart from knowing my friend and her German family for over 40 years, I have worked with many Germans in Germany in both the agricultural machinery industry and the IT world. I travelled all over Europe, but I don't think any nation is more pragmatic than Germany. (I've always said the only other country I would like to live in is Germany.)

I think we do have a tendency to expect quick fixes in the UK and that causes some of the problems for newly elected governments. In the UK, the problem of an ageing population is also looming. Apart from raising the retirement age, I'm not aware of any other policy to tackle the problem (Germany has also been raising the retirement age). It's an EU problem.

Augsberg is near Munich not Stuttgart.

Niedersachsen is the old British Zone and well loved by English people but to my mind its not real Germany, its too near Belgium and Holland

I lke it where the sun is stronger, the woods thicker and greener and you see red roofed houses and market towns with farmers markets and good, old, wellloved traditions.
Its like the UK some people love the North, the climate there and others the South.
The old tend to gravitate southwards but I don't see it as a problem. We have problems now that we knew nothing about 25 years ago and its the same with people retiring.
We can't do much about it and our children will just have to cope with it.