How poor is poor?

Poverty is when you live in a caravan and come home one day to find it stolen - the caravan and all your possessions. This happened to my daughter and sil and it took a long time to recover. Can you imagine having to replace everything - clothes, plates, cutlery, bedding - and find somewhere else to live (a barge!). We visited car boot sales for weeks. If she hadn't had our support I don't know what would have happened.

Older you say I have a sneaky suspicion that the definition of poor has changed somewhat

As you started the thread, can you elaborate on this i.e. what is it that you're trying to say?

Annie how sad.
I agree with MamaCaz that being poor and living in poverty are different. I think DD would class herself as poor. We've always had to bail her out even when she was still with SiL and they were both working. They certainly never had savings to cover emergencies. Bills sometimes not being able to be payed on time, whatever food they could afford etc.despite two incomes.
However she has never lived in poverty, has always had a roof over her head (with help ) clothes and food.
Riverwalk I totally disagree there are many poor pensioners. I'm very fortunate to not be one of them thanks to DH's pensions which amount to an income of upper teens. Due to him being made redundancy at 60 we have no mortgage and a fairly healthy savings pot.
If you have to look at every penny you spend and save for everything but the basics then in MHO your poor. Sorry if that offends anyone I mean it in purely a financial sense and there is no shame in having a low income.

OlderNoWiser
I think many of us can identify with your father's life, most children left school at 14 in those days and had to find work however clever they were.
And I remember ice on the inside of the windows when I was a child, having the toes cut out of my sandals to make them last that bit longer etc etc.

Being poor (which I think we were when we were bringing up the DC) is different from living in poverty imo.
Scrimping, making do and mending but being just able to pay the bills, feed the children, clothe them (albeit in home-made or hand-me-downs) etc. But they always had decent shoes and warm coats. Children grow and need new clothes and shoes - Mums don't so they can wear the same old things for years!

Poverty would mean you cannot afford the basics.

Poverty today isn't the same as our parents and grandparents days , I doubt women have to wash out their on,y pair of knickers at night and dry them on newspaper in the oven - an elderly lady told me this is what she did when left a widow with four sone.

One thing which hasn't changed is poverty can break people's spirits, takes away hope or drives them into the clutches of firms such as Provident . And what makes it harder is tv - just think of the Christmas adverts.

Also people in poverty today are now regarded as those in poverty were regarded in the late nineteenth century , they are classed benefit scroungers, too lazy to work, not able to run a home and cook as their grandmothers did, and god forbid if they have a tv and mobile phone . No allowance or understanding for low intelligence, even criticised for having too many children. To be constantly criticised takes away any self respect

The definition of poverty has certainly changed over the years.As living standards get better for the general populace then the definition must change also.

Nina I suppose it depends on one's definition of 'poor'.

There are certainly pensioners on low incomes but do you know any who can't afford to eat well, heat the house, dress appropriately, have a few treats, etc?

Imagine someone living in a tied cottage, wife of gardener to posh big house. One night she, and her children were very cold. No money for coal (the only heating in tied cottage) so she sneaked a shovelful from the coal bunker of big house. Lady of the big house found out and actually took her to court. (Judge threw it out)

That's poor.

Imagine your child asking if you can have two ounces of sweets and the Mum looks in her purse, and all there is in it is a little gold safety pin!

That's poor.

I could go on. But it's in the past now. Best not dwell on the hard life they had.

Not knowing how you are going to pay your basic general living costs at the end of each week or month. In that I include heating, housing costs, food, basic clothing and the costs of your transport to work.

A great uncle at 7 years old did the odd job for a farmer - his mother a single parent couldn't afford the school fee. Uncle Sam found an egg laid by one of the farmers hens and she have it to Uncle Sam for his honesty. It was the first egg he had ever had.

To elaborate for Riverwalk, what I meant with the sneaky suspicion is that I know people, often pensioners, who have very little but do not consider themselves poor as long as they can pay their bills, have food to eat, etc. whilst I also know people like my husband's grandson of 19, who considers himself very poor because he cannot afford all of the latest XBox games as soon as they become available, but does not see the need to get a job to pay for them - just as a comparison.

I guess it's like everything, poverty is relative, what's poor to one is fairly well off to the next.

True ONW

I agree with OP who says poverty has changed over the years.and agree with olderNoWiser post. each of us see poverty in different ways.

I am on Jobseekers and to be honest cannot see me securing a job for the next 7 yrs to my retirement. I manage my very carefull budget of £73 a week,(think that is approx £3,796 per year)which has to pay gas/electric/water meter/phone(needed for internet) council tax(yes albeit a small amount but still have to pay some) TV licence, and last of all food,and bus fares if I am too tired to walk back home from town. But I don't consider my self poor, I own my own house and am sitting on equity which I cannot get at ( looked at the equity releases schemes but have never really found people that say it's good)
My neighbour is good and invites me round for eats, my mum (at nearly 81) brings me treats when her and my dad call, bread milk, ham biscuits etc.
But I see my self as sort of "well off" compared to others,I have a nice home although cannot replace the things I would like to(oven gone kerput this week) tut!! so I Upcycle I don't go hungry I am well padded! I don't smoke but do have occasional glass of wine.I know that if I ever did! get a job that is reasonable pay, that I can manage on a small amount and would be able to save up.It's not easy but doable, if your a good money manager. Unfortunatley a lot of people arn't,their money as gone in the blink of an eye.also credit is so easy to come by.

I am also fiercely independent lol. Like to manage my own things, my dad bless him keeps wanting to buy me a car (an older car) I try to explain that it wants petrol insurance etc..he says "I will buy it for you insure it and tax it) but I say what happens next year though...! I feel like Im kicking him in teeth everytime I refuse.Although I have been kicking the idea of starting my own cleaning business up so yes a car would be very handy! (better than the wheelbarrow) lol.

Bikergran. I understand your need for independence . But what if the boot was on the other foot and one of your children was in need, wouldn't you want to help in any way you could. Let him do it, it makes him happy. He knows, as we all do: you can't take it with you.

Bikergran, you do have support , there are many who do not, hope you will be able to buy a new stove in the not too distant future

Riverwalk you have a point. I did have a widowed neighbour who was in the situation you describe but that was 20 yrs ago.
The other side of the coin is the near neighbour who recently died. Her house was in bad repair when we moved here 28 yrs ago and looks the same now. She wore the same winter coat and hat for all that time and the same 'duster' coat every summer, DH and I felt sympathy for her. She left £100000 + in her will, a relative told me. Unless you know someone personally, you never can tell.

As a child I lived in poverty; I had malnutrition, the bailiffs took the furniture, I didn't have adequate shoes or clothing and we only just escaped being evicted (my nana lent my mum some money to pay the outstanding rent and saved us).

As a young wife I was poor; I skipped meals in order to pay bills (having been left with a terror of debt from my childhood experiences I have never owed a penny other than for my mortgage), I lived without a washing machine for three years whilst I saved up for one, I watched every penny and walked miles to save on bus fares, I couldn't easily afford prescription charges if I was ill. My daughter was taken to hospital several times and having to find extra money for my bus fares was a crippling expense.

In my thirties I lived in relative poverty; I had two jobs - one full time and another as a waitress in the evenings, this meant I could afford to pay for my children to go on school trips. I had to save up to replace aged appliances and furniture - and all of my furniture was secondhand. Holidays were visits to my husband's family in Devon, but although the accommodation was free we had to save up for the fuel for the journey in our very old car that was a really old clapped out thing. Meals out were non-existent and everything was tightly budgeted for. I lived in fear of unexpected expenditure.

Now, in my middle age, I feel affluent and I am grateful for the ease that this provides. I don't think anyone who has been in poverty or has been very poor will ever shake off the memories, I never have, but I do think that overall the experience has given me a very positive outlook. I think of myself as a survivor and I have learnt to especially appreciate relationships and the simple things in life.

Nina you did say that there are many poor pensioners - I think that's just not true.

Living an extremely frugal lifestyle doesn't mean that they can't actually afford to buy a new coat or turn up the heating.

Can't be a lot of fun though.

And we're always hearing about pensioners who can only afford to heat one room, never mind turn the heating up!

I think we were extremely lucky with our local authority when I was a child. They went to great lengths to keep our heads above water. Wouldn't be like that now. Too many people and not enough money.

Yes Ana, we do hear about such pensioners - but is it true?

I'm not aware of any pensioner who can't actually 'afford' to keep warm rather than make the choice to be unnecessarily frugal.

Plenty of information on the Age UK website. Just because you don't know any pensioners living in poverty personally, Riverwalk, doesn't mean they don't exist.

biker - do let your family help. Perhaps it would give your Dad pleasure to see you benefiting from his money while he is alive rather than after he has died. I know that this is how I feel in relation to my children.

Our income is relatively small (for various reasons like OH's ill health we did not accumulate much in the way of proper pensions), but we own our own home (wiped out mortgage by downsizing) so no housing costs, and we have some savings left by family. We are comfortable and do not feel the pinch at all and we count ourselves very lucky indeed. I am at a loss to know what really rich people spend their money on - there is nothing we want for.

Respect to all of you who manage on tiny incomes. Have you talked to CAB to make sure there is no benefit that you might qualify for?