Cannot believe this bigotry

I'll take it as a no then.Hmm,

Exactly Elegran.

This thread on class is starting to sound a lot like the sketch, you know,bowler hat etc " I look down on him......was this The Two Ronnies or Monty Python?

Celebgran, I was quoting my uncle's opinion There was a name even then for that attitude of seeing virtue only in the "working class", and it is still true - inverted snobbery, it was called. Being snobbish about how you are not a snob.

Marmark1 Are you saying that no one should express support for refugees being allowed into the country unless they are willing to house them? Does that extend to views about all social issues - you shouldn't express concerns about families being housed in B&Bs for months on end unless you offer them a home, you shouldn't be concerned that some people can't afford to heat their homes unless you're prepared to pay their bills, you shouldn't be concerned about cuts to rural bus routes unless you're willing to transport people around in your car, etc. etc.?

We pay taxes to the government and the government decides how those taxes should or shouldn't be utilised. Some people have strong opinions and a balance should ideally be struck between them. My opinion, and that of many other - but by no means all - people is that some of our money should be used to help people in a desperately sad situation.

As you asked Mamark, yes I have taken strangers into my home

In 2011 Osborne said there was no such thing as middle class; we were all working class now. That's why the Tories can claim to be the party of the workers, or working class depending on who is speaking.

My son was an officer in army elegran and be certain didn't buy his commission. He was chosen and won a cadetship at 18 so army supported him through his Cambridge degree. I am Extremely proud of him.

It's called jumping on the band wagon.
No,I doubt I speak for many of you.Absolutly no desire to.Give me an honest down to earth call a spade a spade person any day of the week.Would I take strangers into my home? No I wouldn't.Would any of you? I doubt it.As I've asked,how many are you homing?

mmmm,,,,looking after our own first,,has some merit,,we have people at food banks,unable to feed their families,and in absolute destitution,due to benefit sanctions and the like,,unable to pay their rent,,we cannot claim the moral high ground when we allow this to exist,would you feed a stranger,and allow your sister to go hungry,,thats what we are doing,,this is the reality of our misguided compassion, help a refugee,,and feel good about our selfs,,,ask a mother of three standing at a food bank what she thinks,,oh to be human

Elegran

Perhaps John Prescott summed it up when he said 'We are all middle class now':
We are all middle class now," he said before the 1997 general election, neatly summing up Tony Blair's "big tent" philosophy

However, I would think that, being a Lord nowadays, he would be more middle class than the rest of us. Or even 'upper class'

DH had this class conversation with my sister's husband. DH was a senior NCO in the Army and had just left to take up a civilian job as an office manager. My brother in law said he couldn't consider himself to be working class, as he didn't get his hands dirty. My brother in law was a hands-on self employed house builder and doing very well out of it - golf club, large house, two cars - anyone looking at his lifestyle might have considered him as middle class, but they would probably have got a punch on the nose for suggesting it. He also once made the - I thought shocking - statement that "people like us don't go to university" and therefore did not encourage his sons in their education, but assumed that they also would work with their hands. They did, and did even better out of it than he did, but still considered themselves to be working class! We have never considered ourselves to belong to any class - we have merely hoped that our children would aspire to do better than we did, and they have. What class they consider themselves to be I have no idea; I wouldn't dream of asking them.

This does remind me a bit of my uncle, who was an NCO. His automatic opinion of anyone with a commission was unprintable - all squaddies were wonderful, solid, salt-of-the-earth chaps who kept the forces afloat and couldn't put a foot wrong. all officers were supercilious ignorant know-alls who had bought their way into authority, knew nowt and had to be nurse-maided through it all by the afore-mentioned squaddies.

My father (his brother-in-law) got a degree and a teaching certificate, and taught army apprentices - much the same as teaching large teenager boys in a secondary school - and spent evenings time preparing lessons and tutoring those who needed extra attention. His BiL had a lot of affection and personal respect for him, but couldn't accept that his work tired him "You are just standing there in front of them . . ."

I only brought middle class into this because the good hard working class appeared to be being put forward again as the only people who cared. I mentioned the middle classes because I'm fed up with having to feel vaguely apologetic as obviously the working class is the only one which really counts.

Do Cameron and Osborne claim to be working class?

When did they do that?

I'll carry on being good working class, thanks. I studied sociology and know I shouldn't really, but if people like Cameron and Osborne can claim to be working class, I'm sure I can.
So sorry, Marmark, you do not speak for the good working class.

It was Jane10 who brought middle class into this , I just asked what makes a person decide they are middle class because I haven't the foggiest .

Janeansworth, I know working class children went to grammer school, I was one

Mamark, I have a cousin who lectures on Economics in a university and he is working class, I know because he said so, my son in law has three uncles, two are Maths teachers , one a labour MP, they too are working class

I recall when out canvassing for an election a woman telling me she couldn't vote labour because she was middle class so a Tory

elegran

We could start a new thread on just what makes someone working class and whether some are good working class, some real working class, and some presumably bad working class or fake working class.

Then another on what makes someone middle class etc etc.

How about a list of who you think are good working class, Marmark; just so we know who you are speaking for.
At the moment I am watching the Labour Party conference. They speak for me. I was only a teacher for ten years of my working life. Can I claim to be good working class for the rest of it?

You did not say real working class, though. You said good working class.

Perhaps some of you think your working class when it suits you.School teachers today don't consider them selves working class.
Also,there's a lot of so called working class who have never done a days work in their lives.Hence,real working class.

To return to the original post - a couple of nights ago there was a R4 programme about the Kindertransport. Some of those children who travelled alone to Britain experienced prejudice and racism. 'Twas ever thus!

Hopefully it made many of them capable and confident in work that previous generations of their families, for various reasons, didn't aspire to.
I once served an older man buying classic children's books, not, it turned out, for his grandchildren but his young son. I commented on his good choice and he explained that his father, a South Wales coal miner, had introduced him to these authors. Now he, a university professor, was doing the same for his son.