Cannot believe this bigotry

what on earth is a snob, in this context anyhow? I know many people who are really against the idea of welcoming refugees- and they come in all guises, socially speaking- even the 'middle'. Although, thinking about it some more, the only ones with empathy re the refugees, all belong to the middle, none on either extremes (politically, financially or socially).

Meersbrook123. Thank you for that. Unfortunately we have too many people who would rather worship at the shrine of diversity than protect our British way of life and values.

What is 'our British way of life'? petra? Do you mean your particular style of Britishness?

I really believe that if we look at the values of people who are of 'indigenous' white British heritage across the country we would find equally as much diversity of values/ tradition/ way of life as you would find between Caribbean/African/Asian/Middle Eastern/ Australian/ S African/ New Zealand British citizens!

My mother brought up in a working class home in the NE and my MiL brought up in working class area of Sth London had very different ways of life! If one had been from a wealthier home it would be different again!

In many Muslim cultures freedom of expression is not allowed. People are killed for saying they do not have religious faith, or that they are gay. The freedom of many people, especially women, is non-existent. That for me is a terribly important cultural difference that worries me. That is not xenophobia. It's not the people I'm worried about but some of the ideas they have been brought up with. I see those as a potential threat to my Western European culture. Certain acts of violence against the Western world have done nothing but confirm this worry.

Anyone who 'translates' what I've said here as racism is just being silly.

I think some of you have not read my post very carefully. At no point did I say that we should not take any more refugees. Of course we should. Seeing what some of them have endured and the plight of the children is heartbreaking.
I can, unfortunately, always see both sides of an argument and I was simply pointing out that I understand why many people are apprehensive about the influx of more Muslims. I surely don't have to explain why. But because I can always see both sides doesn't mean to say that I don't favour one more than the other. This time I'm on the side of the refugees.

thatbags that's exactly the kind of thing that concerns me which is why I posted about feeling ignorant about the religious freedom v the law of the land. It's all very well fleeing a country because you are in fear of your life and that of your family's, but if you seek asylum in a country where your religious beliefs which are contrary to the law of that country, should you be granted refugee status? Most refugees are given limited leave to stay, not unlimited leave it, so I wonder what the review process involves. Do we try to measure the degree of integration? I am certainly aware of communities where women do not speak English, do not work outside the home, do not shop in the large supermarkets, etc., and this bothers me. When I taught English and IT in local community education classes, the women from Middle Eastern countries were all educated professionals - usually doctors with husbands who are doctors working in the UK. These women wanted to work as doctors in the UK, but needed to learn to speak English. What about all the other women who don't speak English?

I feel conflicted about this. I supported our multicultural society, but more needs to be done about integration.

Meersbrook123 we cross posted, but I think I understand your position.

thatbags those are my feelings also.

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Syrians will be OK - they had a middle class culture there, and most people were educated, many highly educated. I have met two significant Syrians in my life: one was in Vienna when we were fellow students: he was first year medical, I was a language student. We went out together for a while. The second was the surgeon who successfully delivered my eldest son: it was an emergency cesarean with complications but he did it perfectly.

These are not people from the backwoods of nowhere - they re pretty much like the rest of us.

I certainly understand the fear and resentment that large numbers of people moving to Britain must cause some people: the local authorities must take this into account and try to house the Syrians with some thought and logic and consideration for locals in housing crises.

....but how to get this across to the bigots? That these people are no threat? Time and experience I suppose.

Re the housing crisis, lack of school places and the hard pressed NHS, it is easy to understand why some might feel we don't have enough resources to go round as it is.

And of course most of us are managing with less than we thought we'd have in our retirement and are having to help our children too. More and more people will never own their own house etc yet we are the lucky ones.

I think that we are all so fortunate because we are not having to flee from our homes because of war and mayhem,leaving everything we've worked hard for, homes, jobs etc. And we have never had to live for years in a refugee camp where there is no hope of a future for the younger generation.

I think we must help with relocation of refugees because they really need our help. We are a rich country in comparison with many and I believe it can be done sensitively so that people on housing lists aren't affected.

I accept that there are a significant minority of extremist 'political' Muslims who promote violence against non Islamic cultures.

However the main reason all these people are removing themselves and families from the troubled regions is because they DO NOT support these extremist views!

Also it is not just the 'educated middle class' Muslims who disagree with the political Muslim extremists but many ,less financially secure, who are not able to flee and are having to suffer under the rule of of these thugs.

well, some of my Muslim relatives were the first to do as I asked, and sign the petition to stop Saudis beheading and crucifiying the young political activitist. Few of my Christian friends and family did -

have you?

Oh good to make matters even worse if it is possible now Russia is bombing along with USA and France - we are giving it consideration other than drones. How to empty an entire country of its population in one easy lesson. Utter insanity
I mean bombing has been so successful so far hasn't it? IS has gone from strength to strength since we started the bombing.

act.thesyriacampaign.org/go/160?t=1&akid=260.124249.hj3nmm

Just received this today. Please read it. It's from someone in Syria.

The Syrian government is asking the UN to do its dirty work for it.

In today's i newspaper there is a list of the numbers of civilians killed by various groups.

Government forces 7894
Isis 1131
Armed opposition groups 734
International coalition 125
PYD Kurdish forces 80
Unidentified 381

Obviously Assam thinks the coalition needs to kill more civilians.

This is a long read but worth it.

theconversationuk.cmail2.com/t/r-l-zlttlyk-iudkikukhu-g/

The government's ideas are not making things easier for British Muslims.

I watched Welcome to the Mosque on BBC2 tonight which is a Rob Leach documentary. I feel more confused than before about the Muslim community in this country.

I was most shocked at some of the things the young males had to say (we heard from few young females). One young guy who is at college and doing work experience/volunteering at the mosque talked about not agreeing about freemixing outside his classes at college. Freemixing is basically men and women talking to each other. He believes it's OK to discuss course work with women on his course, but nothing else. Openly admitting he is conservative Muslim, he believes girl friends/girlfriends are 'baggage' (term apparently in common usage) that can lead to fornication and unplanned pregnancy (I kid you not). He was in no way disrespectful of women, just firm in his belief that he should not talk to women in social situations. It was very strange to hear that from such a young man. Secondary school boys from the school in the mosque complex of buildings were also interviewed. During an Ofsted inspection they had been asked questions about students being radicalised. These boys objected to the line of questioning on the basis that pupils at non-Muslim schools would not be asked about the subject. They didn't seem to get that the source of radical teachings needs to be identified. It's clear the young men think the Imans should publicly denounce the radicalisation of young people, but mosques are reluctant to do this because of how they will be/are being portrayed in the media. I could go on, but I think people should just watch the programme for themselves. But my biggest problem is still the segregation of men and women which is covered in the show. I can't reconcile this with UK anti-discrimination and equal opportunities legislation.

I have it recorded will try to watch today and reply

WilmaknickersFit. Yes I saw it. It only confirmed everything I feel about Muslims. Did you notice, the young man couldn't say the word, sex.
I thought it was hilarious where the woman was put behind the screen in the office but had to pop her head out to see what was on the screen. So Monty python. They really have integrated, haven't they.

petra it was the normality of it all I found hard to watch and that brought home the cultural aspect. That said, I know many Muslims - male and female - who behave like you or me e.g. in the workplace, so I would like to think what we saw only happens inside the mosque, but it is clear that is not the case. I don't know what to think and my confusion is unsettling.

WilmaknicKersFit. I never have any confusion.

I do petra because I meet Muslims outside of the mosque environment and I don't think of them as different.

I watched the programme, nothing in it troubled me,well I was troubled the young Muslims feel under threat because of their faith as older generations had suffered because of skin colour but nothing else . Why do we demand others live as we do? We keep on about our traditions etc but expect others to abandon theirs . So a young man chooses to say baggage , is this so different to - being tied down ? If people keep within the law and cause no harm why can we not respect their values, traditions etc