Refugees

Vive Le France!

I concur with all those who've expressed horror, sadness, etc. at this awful news - and it is relentless because the situations are not improving. Absentgrandma, I'm puzzled at your harsh judgement of the French. I gather that you live there...?? I once did, and I found them to be just like everyone else, some kind, some not. I wouldn't say they - as a nation - have less compassion than British people. Who can measure compassion? Perhaps by how much people give to charity? Medecins sans Frontieres originated in France...Or by how many asylum-seekers are granted refugee status in the country? Here are the EU statistics on that: "The highest number of positive asylum decisions (first instance and final decisions) in 2014 was recorded in Germany (48 thousand), followed by Sweden (33 thousand), France and Italy (both 21 thousand), the United Kingdom (14 thousand) and the Netherlands (13 thousand). Altogether, these six Member States accounted for 81 % of the total number of positive decisions issued in the EU-28." So France took 7000 more than Britain. (Granted, it is much bigger!) Tiny Holland, already overcrowded, took 13000; that amazes me.

Tricia, it was the British who invaded most the countries you list

them

We have to take. They just need to get on and sort out a fair way to do it.Get their bloody arses in gear. Including Cameron.

I don't actually see why so much outrage at Hungary, though. We built a fence at Calais.

I wonder if the worries about uncontrolled immigration will lead to a vote to leave the EU. It'd be a pity to leave imo, but I agree we need to differentiate between people from poorer EU countries who move here without work etc and refugees.

tracks.unhcr.org/2014/12/welcome-to-calais/

These are stories of people living in Calais.

In 2004 I went to live in a country outside the EU. Every year when I renewed my residency I had to show that I had enough money in the bank to support myself. I also had to have medical insurance.
I think my views are somewhat coloured by the way I was treated by another country.

I have also noticed that no one seems to be talking about the EU referendum any more. When it came to it, the countries didnt act as a team after all.

I was thinking the other day.
There is no way that as a migrant, I would arrive anywhere, and demand to be let in because I thought their country looked better than mine.

I have two sons living abroad in different countries. I very much call them migrants.
To me, they are not expats because they dont live with other British people. They live amongst the population of that country.

I agree with petra's post.

TriciaF. No, not alarmist. This is what angers me now with this whole debacle about immigration: the word Refugee has been lost.
I'm sorry, but you are not a refugee if you want to come here from Pakistan to find a job. The same with a lot of nationalities now encamped at Calais.
Genuine refugees I will support: but not every tom dick and harry who thinks our streets are paved with gold.

I wrote earlier that I was trying to think of examples in history of mass movements of refugees/ immigrants. Found many references, part of one:
"In the 19C millions of people, including entire communities, from Ireland, Britain, Germany, Scandinavia transplanted themselves to the wide open spaces of the New World" - very few wide open spaces now.
"What happened as a result was a warning from history. immigrants came into conflict with the indigenous populations - Native Americans, Aztecs and Incas in the Americas, Aborigines in Australia, Maoris in NZ, Zulus and other tribes in SA. Leading to epidemics race wars and genocide."
There was an influx of Jews from Russia at the turn of the century and they had trouble settling. Later from India and Pakistan, similar problems.
This might be too alarmist, and no doubt some others on here will say I lack compassion, but if nothing else, a distinction should be made between true refugees from war like the Syrians, people from EU states, and others.

It has always been so jen, once we dehumanise people it makes it so much easier to forget they like us experience joy,sadness, hope, despair , fear, pain , love , they too bleed

Agreed, Anniebach.

An article from the Guardian says it all, really. It's how we talk about people that makes the difference.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/28/migrants-people-refugees-humanity

Why are British people who go abroad to live not called migrants instead of expats? It's because the word migrant has become loaded these days.

Because the foreign secretary said they would affect our life style jen?

www.independent.co.uk/voices/in-treating-needy-refugees-like-invaders-we-risk-losing-our-humanity-10478854.html

Needless to say, I agree. How can we say how awful it is seeing what's happening to the boat people, yet at the same time say we do not want them here?

tracks.unhcr.org/2014/12/welcome-to-calais/

This is a link to a UNHCR report, interviewing people from all sides in Calais.

Signing may help, not signing certainly will not, we have to do what we can to help even if it seems so little

Well said, Iam. It's the drops that make the ocean.

I'm just catching up with this thread and feel heartened to see so much agreement about the need for action to help the refugees fleeing war torn countries.
I've signed the petitions and I wrote to my MP yesterday. I know it's a drop in the ocean and wish I could do more. This is a world wide, not just a European problem but the European governments need to work together, rather than sniping and protecting their own borders.

FluttERBY123. Even with money it would be difficult. You would need a visa. To get a visa you have to go to an embassy/consulate.
We no longer have an embassy in Syria. I don't know about the rest of Europe.

It was absentgrandma who wondered why refugees didn't just take flights, not absent.

I read of someone who had given E15k to traffickers for passage out of one of the places they all want to get out of. In the light of what appears above it seems the only people who can help are criminals - no proper flights and if someone forges your visa he will probably also put you on to someone for the actual journey.......it all becomes clear. I too, like absent, was wondering why people with money didn't just come in the normal way.

SIGNED!