Mrs, Miss or Ms

Are women brow beaten into calling themselves 'Ms', really? As said, I am a Mrs and have been since 1971- but I can understand that some see it as unjust- that a man is not clearly 'marked' by his marital status, but women are. And so are the ones who are 'Miss' at an older age, and all the connotations made about 'spinsters' which do not apply to 'Bacchelors'.

Women have, sadly, been brow beaten by some men and some traditions for a very long time, for education, civil rights, professions, etc- and still are today- with far less women in management and at far lower salaries on the whole. My mother was an exception, so are my daughters, and maybe I was too. So no bitterness on my part and the women in my family. But it does not mean that there is still a vast gap for many and a visible or invisible for many women still (even if it is self-inflicted due to tradition or expectations).

In the days when I was Councillor Anno, I refused to be known as Councillor Mrs/Ms Anno. Some of the female councillors were known as Councillor Mrs XYZ which I thought demeaning. The men were not known as Councillor Mr XYZ! I rather liked the appellation Councillor Anno!

Granjura,
Yes of course tradition.And no definitely I would not intentionally insult anyone.In fact my motto is always to treat a person the way I would like them to treat me.But I admit to calling a spade a spade sometimes.
Also I admit to having a problem with the radical type of feminist.I don't feel personally threatened,but I think the traditional way of life is threatened.But the change (I feel,again,in my opinion) is not always for the better. I think it's very good women can be what they want.But I also feel it must be their choice,and not be brow beaten into it.Dont forget most people will follow like sheep.

I use Ms, if I use anything at all, and didn't change my surname to my husband's. Of course, it is still a man's name, i.e. my father's. I am unquestionably a feminist but am not sure how radical. I don't feel the least bit insecure and am very comfortable in my own skin.

Great you to hear you never intended to insult.

But the question remains is why- why is it different? Tradition- but is that enough?

This thread seems to have raised some interesting opinions. There is clearly still a lot of prejudice against 'radical feminists' - which is very vague in meaning but seems to include anyone who wants to use the title Ms. Some of this prejudice seems to come from other women. Sad.

Just read my posts again,I'm afraid I don't recognise the insults.It is not my intention to be insulting.Or to to suffer threats from anyone else.Of course people can call themselves what they like.And,no the same does not apply to a woman taking her Husbands name.(not in my opinion you understand )

Mrs, definitely, as I have been married since I was 21. I sometimes write Ms on envelopes of single or divorced women.

you beat me to it. Same question?

Marmak1

Using your wife's surname maybe makes you a bit of a doormat?

Does the same apply to women who use their husband's surname?

Mrs

Anyone who is vitriolic about women who call themselves 'Ms' is quite clearly feeling threatened about them, othewise why bother?

Quite right, Marmark1, real women can be and do whatever they want, including calling themselves Ms, and should be able to do so without attracting insults.

My favourite was when we stayed at the Planters' Club in Darjeeling in 1979 and I was addressed as Memsahib and DS (2) as Little Sahib

If they carry on using both surnames it's eventually going to take them a hell of a time to sigh in any where.
Using your wife's surname maybe makes you a bit of a doormat?
Radical Feminist.In my very humble opinion,mean women who feel inferior,especially to men.
Real women are confident and happy in their skin.(well mainly) They know what ever they want to be or do they can.
My great niece wants to be a Architect,she will too.

I have always hated Ms. What does it mean? Is a Ms a neutered female?

I have been Mrs in my private and personal life since my wedding day in 1969. I have also been Miss since then as I use my maiden name in my professional life. Both terms of address are perfectly acceptable but Ms is not. It's feminism gone mad.

kitty, I agree, and I am Mrs too. But although we are a team, and like you have been for 45 years, and on equal terms- this is clearly marked in my title, and not in his. Does not bother me particulalrly. If your DH went for an interview- nobody would know if he is married or not- from his title. But if you do, it is clear to all from the onset that you are. Hence in France now the use of 'Madame' for all adult women.

I prefer Mrs. as Ms seems to represent the desire to hide one's marital status.I don't see the need to wear a wedding ring though and didn't for many years.

I thought it sensible for the children of Ed Balls to take his wife's surname for obvious reasons

I forward DD's mail to Ms L.( Maiden name. )She won't use ex's surname and she's still technically married so in her case I think it's appropriate.
On the whole though I don't like Ms and would never refer to myself as such.

So, on the whole, people don't see it as a major issue but just a personal choice.
Just wondered having been told, elsewhere, that I can't just make it personal when it is political.

I am often amused by the options offered on a "drop down" menu when ordering online or joining a mailing list. I seem to remember Jo Malone offering "Lady" and "Brigadier" amongst others. When I commented on this to one of the staff in the George St shop in Edinburgh, he said he always put "HRH Princess"

Mrs here- but I do understand the sexism of it all. That a man, at interview, will arrive 'incognito', whereas a woman, be it as Miss, Mrs or Ms- will be stating a lot before the interview even started. Never liked the Ms though. despite understanding why it came about.

In France and Switzerland, Miss or Mademoiselle, is just not used anymore for adult women, and the 'Madame' is always used to avoid this kind a labelling. A good idea I think.

Since I am married still, it's Mrs. this instantly tells people that I am married, or was married once.Miss tells people that the person is not, and has not been, married. Ms can mean anything, and tbh I cannot see the point of it.
there is a lot of this double barrelled name thing, but what happens when Miss Smith Brown marries Mr Johnson? do the children then have three surnames all added together?
it doesn't bother me much if someone calls me the wrong thing, like the old saying,' call me anything, but don't call me Late for dinner!'

The main character of Margaret Drabble's 'The Millstone' was doing a doctorate which would avoid the Mrs/Miss dilemma.

Jane10 - a friend who was patronised at a garage was then asked 'Miss or Mrs?' and firmly and correctly replied 'Doctor' which instantly engendered respect. Well, they didn't know it was a PhD in zoology!