This made me CROSS (shouty capitals)

DH and I were talking about the Channel 4 programme Gogglebox last night having just watched a repeat. It struck us that the muslim men, the Siddiquis, are never seen with their wives and 'Sid's' two daughters do not appear either. I googled them and apparently when they were asked about this Sid just said, 'They do not wish to be on TV.'

I could be wrong but this sounds like another example of how muslim men treat their women.

Sorry if this is off topic.

Certainly RC women used to cover their heads, in Italy and Spain with black lace mantillas? You still see older women wearing black dresses and head scarves all day - I believe it was expected of all widows regardless of age.

Interesting about Gogglebox and the Siddiquis, but don't automatically assume it is men imposing rules. Some Muslim women are very active and follow the rules exactly. I believe in Iran after the revolution the most militant people applying the rules about dress were the women police force.

Oh Merlot- hos SOME Muslim men, from specific ethnic geographical backgrounds, treat their women. THIS IS NOT A MUSLIM THING BUT A CULTURAL ONE .... sorry for shouting, but how many times. The Hamish and Plymouth Brethren, Mormons or Creationists, are NOT representative of Christians in general. But if you visit, say, Salt Lake City, or deepest Pennsylvania- it would be easy to think so, if you are from another part of the world.

I'm sure one of the Siddiqui children was on Gogglebox once; I have to say they are my favourite Gogglebox family and, given how witty they are, I can't imagine them imposing rigid rules on their wives [they are my favourite Goggleboxers].

Muslims in Uzbekistan are very different from those in Iran, Roman Catholics are very different here than they are in Brazil. Each geographical background shapes its population's culture and religious practices as granjura says.

In many countries, regardless of religion, women are suppressed including many African countries, regardless of religion or non-religious beliefs.

The breadth of Christianity covers many different regions and practices but they're still all Christians but defined by the customs and practices that have evolved over thousands of years.

The baby appeared on Gogglebox with his father

I like them too and none of us know how they treat their wives but I bet I'm not the only one wondering about this.

Christian women in Eritrea wear a sort of Burka and are totally subsurvient to their men- 90% suffer labial circumcision as infants.

It's these extreme practices that horrify me granjura, how on earth did they ever start? Were they in the name of religion or are they rooted in pre-religion practice?

I imagine so Loopylou- old culture being often very strong. Think aobut Christianity here and how many religious fesitivals are tagged on to the old Pagan festivals. In Haïti, Christians still mix their kind of Christianity with voodoo- it is very deeply ingrained- and Christians who were, at times forcibly or coercingly converted to Christianity, often retain many features of their previous religion and culture.

Although FGM is practised in some communities in the belief that it is a religious requirement, research shows that FGM pre-dates Islam and Christianity. Some researchers have traced the practice to Egypt in the fifth-century BC and argue that the geographical distribution of FGM suggests that it originated on the west coast of the Red Sea. - See more at: 28toomany.org/blog/2013/feb/19/what-are-the-origins-and-reasons-for-fgm-blog-by-2/#sthash.iEmUPo2A.dpuf

Thanks for that Ana. Which illustrates well that what we often associate with a religion, is much more linked to culture, origin, geographical location, etc.

I can remember looking at FGM when reading for my degree all those years ago. What is surprising is that it has taken so long for something to be done about it in this country.

Interesting link Ana. Thank you. Interesting that FGM is so old and also the links with slavery. And both still exist. Interesting that FGM has, successfully it seems, been absorbed into North African Islam. Do North African Christians also practice it?

It fascinates me that the whole world can have been 'infected' by these dominant religions which all eminate from the same tiny spot on the globe. Three regions which all essentially have the same root. The same belief. And yet they change and warp so much as they become absorbed by different cultures around the world. Both Christianity and Islam started as a simplification of Judism yet have morphed in so many different ways.

Another very curious thing about religions is the way in which fundamentalist beliefs all attempt to keep women in their place. FGM must be one of the most barbaric ways in which to attempt to do this. Inflict huge pain on little girls, ensure they can never enjoy fulfilled sex life, various ongoing health problems, suffer during child birth - doesn't get much more oppressive does it.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for immigrants to criticise the country in which they live. Nobody questions the right of the indigenous population to do so; why should they question the right of legal immigrants to do so? The place to which an immigrant has moved may well be better than the country from which they have come, but, wherever it is, it is never going to be perfect. However, unjustifiable and what I suppose could be called non-factual criticism – whether emanating from indigenous citizens or immigrants – is, of course, infuriating to the better informed. Blatantly idiotic criticism really shouldn't be given media time and space.

I think that it is fine to criticise a country in which they live, as long as they are trying to integrate into it. Otherwise no.
Some of us on here have children that are in different countries. And I presume that they all try to integrate? Not on otherwise. It is the polite thing to do. Or else keep quiet. Or else move.

Soontobe, I am on one expat Forum where I live, and some do, and some definitely don't- and constantly complain about everything, the education, the refuse collections, the prices (but they do not complain about the massive salaries), the food, the people- the list is endless. Some make a big effort to learn the language- and get to know local people. Others send their kids to international private schools and clubs, and onyl meet other expats and never learn the language- it was the same in Spain where our DD2 lived- some expats had been there for 20+ years and could hardly put 2 words together.

And they go berserk if someone dares say 'if you don't like it go back home...' they really do.

Personally I just don't get that at all- from either side. If you choose to go and live abroad, you have to adapt, adjust, respect local culture to a large extent (but not always possible, I could never support bull fighting for instance, or shooting every bird that moves, etc there are limits to integration) and learn the language (not talking about getting the grammar right for all, but certainly basic communication)- but I have to say, Brits are notorious for large % living abroad not integrating, living solely among themselves and not learning the language (there are of course many exceptions of course). There are mini vans from Tesco going delivering British food and goods to the Brits all over France, fro instance- and white vans with British workers importing and building extensions, kitchens, bathrooms, not providing any local employment. So foreigners in the UK are not on their own on lack of integration and complaints.

BTW, I also know Swiss people who have emigrated to Spain and do exactly the same- and yet complained before they left at the lack of integration and language effort, etc, of immigrants here. So ..pot...kettle...black... kind of thing.

Nice one granjura. There's also that standard joke that the way the British communicate with any foreigner is by shouting loudly in English. I think we sometimes don't appreciate how difficult it is to settle here and to understand our culture. Even English speakers like the Americans find some of our idiosyncrancies difficult. An American friend had real problems with her MIL because she said we have a habit of offering a cup of tea, getting a refusal and then asking again. She stopped asking when her MIL said "No" and so was regarded as "unwelcoming"

I feel it is the case that the ones who complain when expats in another countries (be they British or any other nationality) are the same type of person who complains in their own native country
having lived in N America - I found it was expedient and polite to not compare anything with 'back home' but 'live and let live'
what I find particularly difficult about this case is that it is not so much 'complaining' as 'blaming' and not seeing that blame can be attached to not only the 'host nation' - there is such a thing as 'personal responsibility'

Well said grannyonce, particularly your distinction between blaming and complaining.

In answer to a question put to me further down the thread, yes, I think it's very weird that a woman would wear a wig so that only her husband sees her hair. Each to their own though.

Elderly friends of my parents moved to Spain, living in a large expat community. I struggled to understand why because, apart from better weather (although they hated the heat in summer) the community insisted that the local supermarket stocked British brands, they drove back to the UK for NHS treatment, including dentist and GP(!) visits and complained loudly about everything Spanish.
Eventually they returned home in their late 80's and then bellyached about Britain.
Very strange

they were of course NOT entitled to NHS treatment, so that was fraud. 1000s of expats do that though.

Yes, agreed, a big difference between complaining and blaming (and as said, I do agree with the OP).