Is wolf-whistling a sex crime?

Very articulate post Bags but I find I disagree with most of what you say.

When I was studying Psychology some years ago we were made aware of a number of theories which sought to explain human behaviour, Biological Determinism being one.

We were warned of the dangers of extrapolating in a simple logical manner from animal behaviour to human, as the latter are far more complex than the former.

In those days men loved Biological Determinism. I remember a lecture by one of our Professors who was well known to have short sexual affairs with his students, moving on from one to another after a few months. He justified such behaviour on the grounds that since female animals can only have one child at a time, which they then have to spend time rearing, but male animals can impregnate many female over a short period of time and don't have to care for the offspring, it was natural for men to be promiscuous and women to want to be monogamous. Most of the female students were cynical to say the least about this kind of theorising.

As for your first sentence, are you implying that those of us who object to the 'wolf whistling' are doing so because we don't want to accept that we are subject to the same biological drives as other life forms? If so, I don't think that's the case and it's certainly not true of me. Even at my age, I love being a sexual being and always try to dress in clothes which flatter my figure, make sure my hair is clean, and enjoy a bit of banter/flirtation with the opposite sex when I can.

However, I do not think this means I should suffer unwanted attention from groups of men who won't take no for an answer.

The sort of men I go for have a little more intelligence and sensitivity than the average ram!

Not sure of the connection to wolf whistling but Bathsheba's husband wasn't getting above his station. King David was a voyeur who spied on Bathsheba as she bathed. He lusted after her and so sent her husband to his death in order to have her. He didn't think he should sleep with a woman whilst her husband was still alive so basically murdered him by default i.e. making sure he would die in battle.

petallus Animals come out of this better than builders. The average ram is only interested in sex for a brief few weeks in the autumn, while all the ewes are in season and actively chasing him (the rams, poor things, are knackered by the time they have all been serviced, they would be glad of a few refusals) They have less inclination than humans to wolf-whistle at goodlooking females at other times.

VQ King David was still exercising his power as head honcho - he made quite sure that Uriah was no competition.

Bags I may well be missing your point, but I think that even if you accept that going to work, having had a shower and applying modest amounts of makeup and wearing appropriate office clothing is female sexual behaviour (which I don't, I think it's going about your normal everyday business), it isn't at at the same level of sexual behaviour as wolf-whistling.

You aren't missing my point, janea. You are disagreeing with my point.

I have a question. If the wolf whistling in this story was so distateful to Poppy, why did she wait a month to do anything about it? She didn't have to endure it for a month. She could have contacted the building company after a few days, or a week. She could even have contacted the police after a shorter length of time. I think it was the young man (who, I agree, does not seem very nice) standing in front of her and barring her way that was the catalyst to action. Poppy may not have liked the wolf whistling but wolf whistling does not stop you going about your business. Having someone deliberately get in your way and interfere with your progress, for no other reason than that you are a young, attractive female, does and is unacceptable behaviour.

petallus, I've heard the Biological Determinism argument you put forward before. I didn't know what it was called though so thank you for that. I think there's something in it but I don't know enough about it to outright accept or reject it.

Bags I don't think the length of time she waited to report this behaviour is relevant to whether it's acceptable or not. Indeed, you might tolerate an isolated incident but need substantial evidence of sustained behaviour to make a valid complaint.
Criticising her for waiting a month is like asking women who have endured domestic abuse for years, why they didn't leave earlier.

pompa, MrBags' initial reaction to seeing me (also on a dance floor) was similar to what you described when you first saw MrsP. He told me. Of course he thinks of me as a sexual object. The important addendum to that is, of course, that he doesn't only think of me as a sexual object.

I've had trouble with the phrase "sexual objectification" for a while but I couldn't put my finger on what was bothering me about it. I think I now know. I don't think sexual objectification is wrong per se. It only becomes wrong if it is the only attribute that is considered, by both men and women, when regarding another human being.

I wasn't criticising her, jane. I was wondering out loud, so to speak, why she didn't do something to try and stop the nuisance sooner.

It seemed to me that she did tolerate the wolf-whistles, though didn't like them, but reported blocking her path.

I don't think wolf whistling and persistent domestic abuse are comparable, just as you don't think wolf whistling and putting on make-up, choosing clothes that flatter one, etc, are comparable.

Exactly, elegran. It was the blocking of her path that was wrong, not the whistling. Wolf whistling does not stop one going about one's lawful business.

thank you GN admin for making clear that Poppy should not be attacked and that the behaviour of the aggressive man on the building site was wrong and needed to be addressed.

Of course wolf-whistling and domestic abuse are not comparable in terms of what women suffer, but the argument 'well if it was so awful, why didn't you speak up earlier' as a criticism of the woman is comparable.

so far neither ana, vq, thatbags or any of the others who have made this criticism of Poppy ,have posted the source of their information re the timeline of what and when Polly did or didn't do . And it is an attack on Polly to say what she should or shouldn't have done. She was in the situation which escalated significantly and would have caused her to ask herself 'what next ?' She dealt with it as she saw fit and she has to live with the consequences. She did complain to the owner of the building and to the building contractor and to the police- read the BBC news article i posted pages ago. She did not do that all on one day as has been posted .Again thank you GN for sending us the email supporting Polly.

What email?

Agreed, jane. The argument, or even the wondering, is comparable. However, I did still wonder it, and I think I wondered it because I believe that the wolf whistling was not a big issue with her, even if she didn't like it. Having someone undesirable step in her way was and is a big issue.

I haven't said anything about what Poppy should or shouldn't have done, amarmai. I think you have misinterpreted what I have actually said.

I reiterate, jane, that what I wondered is not a criticism, nor did I wonder it in the tone your post implies.

People with more knowledge of domestic abuse than I have have wondered the same thing and tried to work out why abused people apparently put up with abuse for so long. It is not wondering that is the problem. Blame, if there is any, is the problem. I did not include blame in my wondering.

'The whistling went on for a month. I eventually contacted the building company and the police on the same day when it got so bad.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3057347/Police-probe-construction-firm-23-year-old-woman-accused-builders-sexual-harassment-WOLF-WHISTLING.html#ixzz3YtqS4179
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This is my source. She says quite clearly that she contacted the company and the police on the same day. In another part of the report she says that she was stopped by a young man aged 18 or 19. This doesn't sound like the man who was interviewed later and has been discussed on this thread.

As a survivor of domestic abuse I can state categorically that a wolf whistle and domestic abuse are definitely not the same thing.

What email?

Bags I didn't mean to offend you with my 'tone' , sorry if I did.

amarmai I have looked at all the pages on this thread, and there is no post from GNHQ. You repeated your thanks to them, so you clearly want to tell us that you have seen such an email, but WE have not. If it was sent you as a private email, then it was meant for you, not for public viewing. If they had wanted it to be public, they would have posted on the thread.

As it is, we only have your second-hand hint. You do realise that without seeing the email itself, we have no idea whether it is even true that you received it! Anyone could post to say "Thank you GN for backing my side of this" without any email from them at all! I am sure you would not stoop to such a deception, but you must see that by thanking them twice in public, you are tacitly claiming that they have said that you are right and others are wrong?