Zero hours contracts

For the record, I have offered this woman the tenancy. Fingers crossed – I hope it works for her and for me.

Because zero hours contracts suit some people doesn't make them acceptable in principle

Been pondering this. They seem to have their place.
But not good if you have to rely on them when you want to be employed full time. Best to avoid them in that case if you can.

I think there are significant differences between zero hours and self employed

One you are working for someone. In the other, you are working for yourself.
And probably less paperwork.
Different things really.

Yes I work as self employed/ freelance. As I suspect is the case with Flick's DH, this is not our only source of income and we do not have to worry about getting a mortgage or a rental contract or bringing up our children

I think there are significant differences between zero hours and self employed - don't ask me what, but I'm sure there are legal/tax implications. I was self employed as an IT consultant for a while, paperwork was a pain in the butt.

Because zero hours contracts suit some people doesn't make them acceptable in principle. Good post Flick. The real issue is what should be proper jobs being dressed up as zero hours to let employers off the hook - there is and was real exploitation and not just the exclusivity aspect.

No, they were not zero hours contracts, before zero hour contracts existed. The people doing these one off occasional jobs were freelancers, much as DH has been working as a self-employed/freelance consultant engineer since reirement

An employee has to have a contract with his employer, if the employer cannot guarantee set working hours, then it must be a zero hours contract.
I don't see a problem with this, the employee is aware of the conditions. What was wrong was exclusivity, but that is now illegal.

I can see no use for zero hour contacts

But, surprisingly to me, there are lots of posters on here who are saying that they like them.

But this can be catered for by contract without it being a zero hours contract.
Yes, it is called a zero hours contract.

The link between Zero hours contracts and a poor tenant not paying rent and trashing a house is co-incidental, not cause and affect. I had two Irish lads, lovely guys, new graduates, first job, who didn't deliberately trash my flat, but came from a culture where boys are idolised and while at home never did a thing for themselves. As a result had no idea how to look after themselves or a property. They left the grill on overnight and melted the cooker knobs and, as I discovered too late, damaged the electricity control board. then there were the bed side lamps, bedding, I had to get professional cleaners in to deep clean, etc etc etc.

I can see no use for zero hour contacts. DFiL worked in the car industry when it was seasonal, work all winter laid off in the summer. I know how destabilising it was. the car workers fought long and hard in the 1950s & 60s for a Guarenteed Week. It is a tragedy to see this basic foundation of a fair society undermined.

There are jobs where people do work off and on and that is understood and accepted. My cousin, now retired, delivers cars as a extra earner. He is happy to work on an ad-hoc basis - and have the right to turn down work if it is inconvenient. But this can be catered for by contract without it being a zero hours contract.

My OH is on zero hours, he's 67, the nature of the job means he's not needed every day and if he wants time off he gets it albeit unpaid. Suits us!

My son worked on zero hours contracts for a long while when he first moved up to live with his GF (now wife). Gave him the opportunity to try lots of jobs, he was rarely out of work.

btw I have never missed a payment yet.

I have paid a mortgage for almost all its lifetime on a zero hours contact.
No probs, it depends upon the employer, you need a reference from them too. I work for a multi national company though and trust them thoroughly.

Lilygran I had a look at your link and rights for employees on zero hours contracts don't seem very reassuring.

The main issue is not knowing how many hours work you will get a week and therefore how much you will earn. Conceivably, workers might do two hours at minimum wage!

Yes, they are Lily. They eventually get their benefits adjusted when work dries up or they earn sufficient to affect entitlement, but they are messed about meanwhile. A retail sports shop is one of the employers they both work for - phone calls on the day are the norm for them knowing what work is available.

Are you sure they're on zero hours contracts, when? Workers on those contracts do have rights m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4468 but there are still plenty of casual workers around especially in construction and catering. And in agriculture. They don't have contracts. Agency workers aren't guaranteed work, and they are often treated as self-employed.

Going back to your original question absent could you get some sort of rent guarantee? We had to provide one for our son for his rented property at Uni.

My next door neighbours are reliant on zero hours contracts. She is currently on maternity leave (unpaid) and he juggles two or three jobs. Yesterday and this morning, he left the house at 7.30am, being picked up by a white van man to go and do some labouring on a building site. Yesterday, he was home at two, nipped indoors to get changed and drove off in his car to do another job. His working pattern changes every few days - sometimes he's at home for a few days, then he'll work ridiculous hours to keep on top of finances. They get tax credits and housing benefit, but it's so messy, it has to be reassessed regularly because of their odd work arrangements. If he falls ill, they're scuppered.

The thread has drifted to zero hour working rather than the question in the OP, always going to be the case.

697.000 people are on zero hour contracts, representing 2.3% of the total workforce.

It increased by 28% last year but the ONS say that is NOT the result of a surge in zero hour jobs being offered but more to do with increasing recognition of the contracts by those being asked by researchers about their employment.

Around 1/3rd of those on zero hours / casual labour want more hours.

Zero Hours are now the buzz words whereas Casual Labour which has been around for ages is hardly ever used by the media or those who are opposed to zero hour/casual labour. MP's, councils, even in Green Council controlled Brighton use zero hour/casual labour .

I am not disagreeing that zero hours/casual labour does not work for some but I reiterate that not everybody is unhappy with zero hour/casual labour employment and nobody is speaking up for them are they!

These zero hours contracts are iniquitous and I believe that over a million people are subjected to them. How on earth people can plan for the future under such conditions of employment is a mystery to me. They are not eligible for a mortgage and if they are seen as a bad risk by landlords they won't be able to rent, either.

Would you offer her a lease if she was a freelance, absent?

I do agree Iam64. It feels shameful to put folks in such a position in this century.

Good to see you comment on this thread 12Michael - I agree with you. Zero hours contracts should be abolished. It feel like we're going backwards to the times when men would wait at the docks to see if they'd get a days work. No security, no sick pay, no annual leave and the fear that if you turn down work you simply won't be offered any more.

I would think that being an experienced landlord absent you are well aware that you are in a domain that requires head over heart thinking to make your decision.

You say she has a partner and a 20 month year old child so again you probably know what welfare benefits she is in receipt of as she would have disclosed all income, at least that's what I expect you to ask for.

I think the zero hours aspect of your plight is only a part of your decision making but if you are not sure then do as you probably always do and go with your gut feeling. As you have said you can easily make misguided decisions whatever the initial ability of the Tennant to pay.

Being a landlord is a game of chances, when your Tennant is reliable it works out well for both of you, when your Tennant is a nightmare you have learnt what the out come is. The ball is in your court and only you can make your decision surely.

As for zero hours they are a god send to some and their choice of employment. I have said before my husband chose to do zero hour working for personal reasons and my father had at least 3 carers who chose to work zero hours to tend to their family commitments, they moaned they were being asked to commit to more hours than they wanted. The government has legislated against 'exclusivity' zero hour working , quite rightly.

I do however understand that zero hours /casual working , which is nothing new, can be a problem for those looking for full employment or guaranteed part-time work.