Children get in the way of greatness...

You have misunderstood my posts so completely that I don't even know where to start, granjura. You have misrepresented me from start to finish!
I simply haven't time at the moment to put what I really meant. I will have a go later.
Very true nightowl - I have a friend with a child with profound special needs. All thought of a career have had to go. And her husband can't be the one to give up his career- he couldn't cope with the situation and has left.

Women in the past who were mothers had servants which allowed them to focus all their energies on work.
Little has changed. For a mother to have a successful career these days they need servants/willing grandparents/a partner who is not career focussed or some combination of those. The only exception would be if they work from home like JKR.
The Blairs must have had an army of help. Ditto Yvette Cooper and Ed Balls, particularly when they were in government. It must be a horrendous juggling act particularly in politics where the hours are particularly unsocial.
Ruth Kelly stepped down from her career to concentrate on her family life. It is rumoured that T Blair also retired a little early because the family was suffering.

Women in top jobs of course need help today to make it work. But their employees are not servants- a qualfied nanny is as highly paid as a primary school teacher- and very well looked after and respected. Very different to slaves. Cleaners and gardners are paid a good wage, and all social benefits, etc- by honest employers. So a woman who works provides proper employment for others too.

I do hope you come back Leticia- and I do apologise if I misread your posts- although I am not sure how. You are clearly saying that couples who are both talented, both hard-working, both love their job and are keen to progress in their career- should either not have children, or toss for who gives up their career- as it is impossible to be good parents otherwise- and that one has to give up their professional 'ambitions' (for fear of a better word).

BTW, if a woman works part-time after having children- an accident, school play or sports day can still happen during her working hours. In fact, employers are far less likely to be sympathetic if someone works part-time and asks for time-off. If parents work very hard- it is much easier to put their foot down and say 'I shall take the morning off for the school-play' etc- and of course, women who are Senior Managers and do their job really well, can organise to deputise and give instructions that will free them for said school play. The higher the job, in many ways, the more in control and flexible you can be. It can work- it does work - but yes, it is very hard ... work. I take my hat off to those women.

I will start at the beginning.

Marie Curie is one of the small band (men and women) who really are the greatest - of course I am interested.

If one if my family are having to undergo an operation of course I want to talk to the surgeon, oncologist, or anyone else treating them- in privacy, in a professional setting.
I do not wish to talk about their job in general in a social setting. I should think they are very pleased seeing as the bane of their life is going to a party and people wanting to discuss their ailments! It would be very unprofessional anyway- it needs to be confidential, with colleagues at work.
A female bank manager would be a great person to talk things over if I wished to embark on a project etc. I would go to the bank and it doesn't bother me if I see a man or a woman- as long as they are good at their job. I wouldn't expect free advice in a social setting. If I don't need advice I am not particularly interested.
Likewise I have had interesting talks with Head teachers- I don't need them now. I love talking about education in general, having been a teacher but am aware that others may well find it boring.
Talking 'shop' is largely uninteresting to those not in that particular field.

I am quite happy to go to a talk about anyone and their job- as long as it is well prepared and amusing and they are a good speaker.
However in a social situation there are far more interesting topics.

I went to a meeting recently where we had to introduce ourselves to tne person next to us. Afterwards it was refreshing to find that no one had used their marital status, children, grandchildren or employment to define who they were.

At no point whatsoever did I say that people didn't discuss childcare before they had the child!! That remark was to women who haven't got it worked out, are aggrieved that their career comes second and irritated that they are the one to take the day off if the child is ill. Obviously they haven't discussed it if they are upset because they do the washing up, organise birthdays, babysitters etc. Or they have discussed it without a satisfactory conclusion.

Goodness only knows where I was supposed to have said that women should pick less intelligent men to be carers!! I pointed out that it didn't necessarily have to automatically be the woman who did the lion's share. The examples that I gave were of men who were really happy to work part time- highly intelligent people can actually enjoy not channelling it all into a career!
It is a matter for the couple how they work out childcare- one way of doing it won't suit another.We are individuals.

I know it can be done. I also know lots of examples where it is done badly.
I too take my hat off to those who do it well.
I take your point that the higher up you are the more you are likely to get time for the sports day etc but the buck stops with you and work may have to come first.

I still don't see what careers and childcare have to do with 'greatness' - a whole different debate- very few men or women reach it. It depends entirely on the field of 'greatness' as to whether children hinder it.

I do think that if both parents are doing high powered, responsible jobs and working fairly long hours, it is difficult to spend relaxed and unstructured time with children because time is so limited.

Many men in senior positions say in later life that they regret seeing so little of their children (and many children say they regret it also) and presumably women may also look back with similar regrets.

I think parents who can survive on one salary or with one parent working less hours are fortunate. The people I feel really sorry for are those who are in ordinary jobs and who don't earn very much but who nevertheless can't manage on one wage. They can't afford to employ nannies or domestic help and at the end of the working day they still have to cook and do all the domestic tasks, leaving little time or energy for the children.