Our girls

Is it because the "system" doesnt know where to draw the line anymore?

It can be very difficult for parents and carers to stop some young people from going out if they are determined. But having said that, those parents who discovered what was happening to their daughters and tried to stop it, were treated as 'bad' parents of 'bad' daughters by those who ought to have stepped in.

As for those LAC who were failed by the system, there was no excuse.

Thank you!

I know what you mean soontobe!

Before anyone jumps on this.
I presume [could be wrong] that eg care workers and parents "let" the children of say 12 and upwards, go out, when in decades gone by, they wouldnt have been "allowed" to.
[I have visions of dads locking their daughters in their bedrooms, for example]

[I know I am not explaining this very well and will be jumped on]

There certainly seems to be a repeat of authorities being scared of the racist label yet again.
I hope this changes really soon.

I cant also help thinking that there is another big issue. That because the country now has a lot looser morals, that those in the police, law, social workers, care workers etc, have got very confused about, particularly girls, what their wishes and intentions are.

I suppose one of the (many) outcomes I'd like is for Pakistani community leaders to denounce this behaviour publicly and to encourage more respect for all girls and women in the Pakistani community. The specifically organised nature of this latest scandal calls for this I think. Working together to look at the root causes should be addressed as well as failure to act to stop it. Of course I know that girls can be preyed on by all sorts of men but this was different.

Jane10 we are all aware that in these case it was a group of men of (mainly)Pakistani origin. The crime is the same and just as appalling regardless of the racial heritage of the perpetrator. What are you wanting to say? There are many cases of men from other racial backgrounds abusing girls/women.
In this case I think it is equally pertinent that the girls were also mainly from vulnerable circumstances. This (it appears) made the British police think that somehow the girls were complicit in their own abuse and so did not take the reports seriously enough.

Rather like the dreadful case of Savile the institutions set up to protect people held prejudiced views: i.e. some girls 'ask' for it, some men could not be abusers because they are celebrities & raise money for charity! The abusers are responsible for their actions but those in places of authority need to carry out their roles more robustly and without fear.

There was one particular "community" involved with the girls in the latest (and previous) report!

And they're all so sorry when caught, sick individuals

I think unfortunately a lot of men seem to see women (including underage girls), who are inebriated, naïve or in some other way incapacitated or vulnerable, as "fair game".

Is there just one specific "community" that should address these issues? It seems to me that wherever there are men in positions of trust where they have a degree of control over children/young people, there is a small minority that use those positions to carry out abuse. We have seen this within religions, schools, cubs/scouts groups, youth clubs, hospitals, in the media, etc. etc.

A few years ago, I used to regularly visit a care home.
The one I visited seemed to be well run, and had regularly properly trained staff.

May be it was not the same sort as you are talking about Eloethan. In the one I visited, there were not resident social workers. They just visited. But yes, it was not unusual for a child to have as many as 4 different social workers in one year.

Also we need to look at the kind of men who commit these crimes. We haven't heard much from that community and it is one specific community who are largely involved. Why do they see our girls as fair game?

Five men received life sentences with a minimum tariff of 17 years.

Two men got 7 years.

Many of the victims were in care homes but I don't think it's necessarily the case that all the girls who fall prey to this vile sort of man have had unsettled or difficult home lives. I expect some young girls might feel flattered by the attention, and even "normal" families have their ups and downs with teenagers, which can so easily escalate.

However, I think the fact the many of the children did come from care homes meant that they were already labelled as "difficult" or "unmanageable". I watched a documentary recently where children in care or who had been in care said that they tried to hide the fact that they lived in a children's home. This was because they found that it was automatically assumed that they were in care because of their antisocial or disturbed behaviour. This isn't really what one would expect from social workers but I'm not sure that people working in residential children's homes are necessarily very well trained or qualified.

Whichever way you look at it, a lot of people appear not to have done their jobs properly, although I suppose it should also be borne in mind that there is a huge shortage of experienced social workers, particularly in child protection, and a growing number of referrals. There seems little point in David Cameron making a pronouncement that child exploitation is to be treated as a "national threat" without providing the necessary resources to recruit, train and retain more social workers - and to ensure that the police are also properly trained in such matters.

loopyloui wait for the crash from my house when I throw something at the TV next time some inept apologist comes out with lessons will be learnt. We know they wont, we know that all that will happen is a few highly paid individuals will be paid huge eye watering amounts of money to produce a report which will then moulder in ring binders for evermore. Do they really think we are all that stupid.........? Yes, obviously,

Jane, I wonder who girls nowadays see as role models, inside or outside of the family?
If for many it's pop or film stars and their sometimes highly lurid lifestyles then heaven knows how you change things.
While waiting for a friend I glanced at the magazines and was stunned at the topics considered suitable for young girls and teenagers.

Yes, all fine and no doubt there will be all sorts of reviews etc. Various heads will roll but these girls will still be vulnerable. Why do they feel so unloved and unworthy that they fall prey to these men? What is it about us as a society that these girls are available for this sort of exploitation in the first place? Family breakdown? Schools hidebound by protocols? Attitudes in the media? All of those and more. We need much more of a review than just chastising those that should have policed it all better. We need to look at how it all happened in the first place.

I dare say they'll walk in to another high level job Riverwalk before long....
Isn't there also something fundamentally wrong where some boys aren't brought up to respect women too? Leaving aside cultural differences, there are many cases where Western world men treat women as chattels and sex objects.
Like it or not, Social Services are the lead agencies for Vulnerable Adults and Children and should work very closely with the police, so why the hell isn't it happening?
Smacks of ineptitude and laziness to me, and the next time I hear someone 'apologising' for their failures and so-called 'promising' things will change I swear I'll throw something at the TV.
No one in statutory agencies ever seems to learn from experience , and it makes me fume.

Is it PC gone mad?
Is it "top people" who dont seem able to handle things correctly?
Is it systems that are not working properly?

Whatever it is, it stinks.

Being discussed on Women's Hour now.

Thanks Riverwalk 7 is a start I suppose, but there must be more . I am stunned at the numbers of victims, it is on such a scale that I just cant take it in. I would not be a SW today, it must be like walking on egg shells, having to consider all sorts of sensibilities and sensitivities, although where rape of children is involved, sensitivities of race or religion should not enter into it. Justice should be blind.

I know it seems to be at a bit of a tangent but is the fact that family courts work in secret going to affect how those who work with "domestic" issues too powerful?

Seven men were jailed in 2013 Gill

Oxford

Interesting to see that the Chief Constable is leaving the force and the Council Chief Exec. may be made redundant - both will good pensions and packages, no doubt.

Absolutely GillT57 me too! I do think that the men are being prosecuted. There were photos of some of them in the paper today. I had a good long look at them sending mental daggers! I'd like to think they'll have an awful time in jail but suspect they'll be venerated there.
I hope that the high profile nature of these cases leads to it being wiped out throughout the country due to fear of being caught if nothing else.
Re SWs I've worked with a lot of hard working decent SWs. The front line ones are as fed up as we are at "policy changes" up top and managements led by funding issues rather than actual care concerns. Its a hard business and I've seen good SWs burn out sadly.

Like all on here, I was shocked to hear the findings of this report, but still angry that there was very little mention of criminal prosecutions for the many men involved. I appreciate that nobody wants some awful race centred retribution, but race shouldnt enter into this; contrast the justified public disgust at Gary Glitter, where is the difference? Why are there not bus loads of men being taken to court and charged? DH and I were discussing it, and wondered initially if some of the families, although obviously caring, were out of their depth in dealing with this disgusting and terrifying business, and were possible deferential to SW and Police, as some people are to others who are perceived to be professional and know what they are doing. I know it is easy to say from the cosy safety of my own home, with my 18 year old DD in her bedroom, but I suspect i would have gone berserk and smashed up their stinking kebab shops, taxi offices or whatever, anything to get noticed and get something done.