Effective strategies, please

I guess that is exactly what I was trying to say GillT57 - it is possible to conflate small things into issues of principle (respect etc.) when really they are tiny in the scheme of things. Extrapolating such a small thing into an issue of respect is what is known as catastrophising in my book.

Sorry bags if I sound critical - I am coming from a very different place from you on this issue, but it might be a different view to at least consider. If she does not respond to the tongue-in-cheek dirty bowl in the bed (which should be done with a bit of humour), then I should just cut her a bit of slack - you do not want to provide her with a battle ground unnecessarily - there will be plenty more serious ones to come.

I had 3 teenage girls in my house at one point - and survived! I let an awful lot flow by me, but made sure that there were lots of hugs and that these were the important things. They came round to these details in their own time.

I'm grateful for all the replies on here. They have helped me to think things through, to see the funny side, and just to talk. One small response I would make is that assumptions about what else I might have to worry about with regard to Minibags are out of order. You do not know. I also have two daughters in their thirties so I've been in similar places before and come out unscathed, as have my daughters.

So long and thanks for all the fish

Fish! What fish?!

I really do think you could get her a plate with her name on it. (they're never too old for that stuff ). And leave it out for her the night before.

Go on! Give it a try.

I'm sure someone else has said this [probably me with my memory ]but imo teenagers that work hard at school and are generally nice and polite to people have to let rip in some ways, even if it's just leaving crumbs lying around. Strangely enough [on the subject of crumbs] although I live in absolute squalor when I have something to eat out I always have to put everything neatly back on the tray or, if I'm in a group of people have to stack the plates nicely [probably a result of years of waitressing]. When I worked at a surgery I was always amazed by mothers/fathers that let their children get the books and toys out of the box but never got them to put them back afterwards. I always felt that the ones that did that probably had immaculate homes. My kids always tidied up after themselve when out and about but at home it was the usual chaos.

You sound like my DH Tegan. He always has to neatly stack the tray up for the waitress. Bless.

Bags I didn't mean to sound critical either, and I certainly wasn't assuming that you will have to sweat big stuff when Minibags is older.

But equally, I don't think any of us can assume that our daughters aren't going to have problems in various ways as they face what life throws at them. If we have a good, tolerant relationship we're going to be in a better position to help them with those hurdles. I just think that sweating the small stuff isn't tolerant.

I've got two daughters in their 30s too, who I regard with great love, gratitude and pride. But I see other people's daughters sometimes, who are deeply unhappy in the life choices they've made, and think there but for the Grace of God.

Don't worry, folks, I didn't and don't feel criticised. I was and am glad to get other people's thoughts on the subject of teenage slobbishness and how to deal with it. I have taken on board some of the suggestions that were made, e.g. I set the table last night, including leaving a crumb brush and pan next to Minibags's plate. She took the hint. I will continue this for a while until I think she doesn't need the reminder of the cleaning up after herself tools. It's not as if this is anything new to her. At the PGL weekends she went to as a Cub and a Scout the kids had to clear their tables after each meal, including any water glasses that hadn't been used, and then they had to wipe the tables. I think this kind of thing is a reasonable expectation to have of a fourteen year old. I think Minibags thinks it is too. If she doesn't, that's just tough, but I honestly think she does.

Sounds cool, Bags
for you too

B

I really didnt mean to criticise or hint that there may be worse things coming thatbags and I am sorry if it came across like that. It is just that when you read and hear about some of the awful things that happen to and with teenage girls then being awkward about crumbs just doesnt seem that important. My daughter leaves her room like the aftermath of a raid by the drug squad, but she is a lovely kind and polite girl, works hard at college, has ambition for her future, compared to her best friend who is pregnant at 17 I feel I have nothing to moan about.

Thanks for the post bags, and to all the comments people have made. I was feeling relieved I don't have any teenagers at home as I read, remembering the efforts we made to have middle daughter wipe the surfaces after doing the dishes. She's now 30 and we have to take our shoes off, and leave the dogs outside if we call mid muddy walk. Her home is immaculate, who'd have ever thought that could happen.

My two pennarth is to avoid unnecessary conflict. The wisdom is knowing which bits to avoid, we all do our best

We fought like cat and dog about her mess when my eldest daughter was a teenager. She's now 36, married with a gorgeous daughter, fab hubby and an amazing home - and is still as messy as ever!!! But I don't have to see the mess very often and regret every minute we spent fighting. It just wasn't worth it. Thank goodness, we're the best of friends and she admits she was selfish at that time!

I had 4 teenagers of my own plus an endless stream of their friends more or less living with us. I never had any major problems and think that was because from infancy I never said No without good reason, never fought with them and always tried to keep the peace.
Nagging is never effective, they just turn off. I knew parents who shouted and slapped constantly and their children took no notice.
Save anger for the big things (drink, drugs, pregnancy) not crumbs.

I agree that the teen years are about choosing your battles, prioritising, and I would also feel that each of us have different priorities in what is acceptable within our homes.

My son was always polite to guests but could give me a grunt.
He always eventually took plates and mugs from his room to the kitchen but if I found we were running short in the kitchen I shouted to him to bring everything out of his room. Some of it had mould !!
Curtains remained closed for weeks and his bedroom floor was an obstacle course.
I did his laundry and left it at his bedroom door.
This would have been the time of upper 6th and first year at university.

Once every couple of months I'd empty the room giving it a deep clean and spend ages putting cassette tapes into their relevant cases and making it nice and tidy. Noone cared but me.

Move on 20 years, he and his wife are both professionally educated, he does his share of the chores in running their home, the necessary childcare, laundry.... everything. On a two week visit (they live in the US) I was so impressed.... and it wasn't just a show for us. My DDIL told me I had brought him up well.

I think what helped was that he moved into house share in his second year of uni and had to learn to budget, manage his time etc. Bought stuff in charity shops, bought rice in 3kg bags, and pototoes in cwt bags.

It's not about mess really. soop has been to my home and she'll confirm that I'm not a fusspot about tidiness or unnecessary cleanliness, though I am careful about hygiene. For me it's just about doing your share and not being shirker or taking your parents for granted. And all that, for me, is about respect. Minibags understands that. She's sitting across the table from me right now conversing with some of her online friends.

So glad we didn't have "screens" when mine were at home.

I had one tidy-ish one and two slobs The tidy one is not so tidy since she's had her own children although she's average, one of the slobs has remained so except for the places that show, the other slob the worst has become a total minimalist with not a crumb out of place

You cant win I tried every trick in the book doing it myself, leaving it on their bed, charging fines, confiscating nothing worked..... bad mother

I've had more difficult 'battles', as some of you call them, with Minibags when she was five and six years old. Mind you, I didn't have gransnet then

It wasn't a battle. It was a choosing of an effective method to deal with an annoyance. I did mention Jeeves and Wooster right at the beginning!

I went to visit my son when he was house sharing at Leeds Uni and was amused to find the lads cleaning the place [even the cooker] because of my visit. When I used to house share myself I found the blokes were much cleaner and tidier than the girls.

Its hard at to get 14 year olds to alter their ways. I tended with my girls to let it go if they were pleasant and good tempered and ate some breakfast. We tried having discussions and once we got them to agree to do certain chores. We left it at a few basic things like me having Sunday off.
It worked and DH went along with it and did 'his' turn on Sundays.
Actually they all controlled each other.
From a parents point of view it is hard work but the time and energy invested pays dividends.

When DD & DS were teenagers, they both had to do chores to get their pocket money. DS's job was to do the hoovering. I learned years later that he would push the brush & hose over the carpet, without switching the machine on, so that You could see the marks of the brush. It was a sort of beige Berber carpet, but I can't remember how long this deception went on for. I might add, at the age of 35 he is still very "canny "! I don't think teenagers will ever change I'm afraid thatbags !

I don't know if it's because we always have people living with us, but I do tend to sweat the small stuff because it's the little things that, if left, tend to become major irritants. Not of themselves, but as bags has said, because it's about respect. Things like leaving washing in the machine and then going out for the day; taking things out and not putting them away, leaving a mess in the kitchen, putting recyclable things in the bin.......small things in themselves, but they create jobs for other people if not done by the person who is responsible.
When our children were younger we used to talk often about the importance of the three R's: relationships, respect and responsibility.

a little smack here and there can be mighty effective, despite what many say. it teachers core discipline. they will know to clean up their plates right away with just a look!

See, even though a lot of people in modern society look down on it, I see no problem with discipline. Most of us were disciplined as children, and we all turned out fine. And when I used it on unruly children it worked fine.

I can't imagine myself ever raising my hand to my grandchild, but still. Hope you solve the issue.

A slap for not clearing up crumbs seems a bit extreme.........