Women Bishops!

Iam64 I would guess that Mark1 sees feminists as women in boiler suits with brutal haircuts who would castrate all men. That is the male view of them, and perhaps as she is lucky enough to live in a country and a culture where she is on equal terms with men she shares their outlook.

8.28, your post , MARK I agree.

If someone could prove beyond doubt that men were physically stronger than women, what on earth difference would that make to the serious issues of feminism, gender equality and whether there should be women bishops?

Returning to Iam64's post (no-one has yet said that the average woman has physical strength equal to the average man, so I am not following you up that cul-de-sac, Mark1, though I can see you would like to debate a point not yet made)

- you say
"Every person in the world is equal.Every person in the world is different.Nobody male or female is more equal than the next.Richer, cleverer, stronger, none of that makes them more equal."

- dictionary.reference.com/ says
"feminist -

adjective, Sometimes, feministic
1. advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men.

noun
2. an advocate of such rights."

so what is it about being a feminist that you deny so vigorously?

And looking at the Rotherham case, there is much food for thought about patriarchy and sexism and its impact on young girls and they are perceived and treated.

I wanted to be a man when I realised how much easier men had it in my youth.
It was easier for them to get into medical school and get promoted in the civil service. However I still succeeded.

If you had wanted to enter the priesthood and eventually be a bishop, you would have been disappointed until this recent change, Galen

Well yes Galen some women have always succeeded but there have been, and still are, many who don't simply because of our failure to fully address gender inequality .What a waste of talent there has been and still is - and worse than that, what a loss of the perspectives that women can bring to various debates. When carrying out my various roles, there are definitely occasions when my views and experiences as a women have made a significant contribution to the debate and the ultimate decision. Not all issues of course require that sort of input but a good number.

There are always those who are more determined and can jump more hurdles faster and with more endurance than the rest.

But there should not be MORE and HIGHER hurdles for some to jump than others, just because some have two X chromosomes and some have one X and one Y. The decision not to bar women from being bishops has removed an insurmountable hurdle across one path.

I think of a bishop's job as being more management and politics, than pastoral. Could be wrong.
And success in politics for women seems to be associated with a strident ability to shout down the men.
So I think a woman would excel in pastoral work and men at bishop's work.

Trishia - funny how women are described as strident isn't it but never men? And in terms of management and politics, why do you say men are better? In my long life I've clearly forgotten all the wonderful male managers I've experienced and am full of admiration for all the male politicians that have made this world such a wonderful place ( see Rotherham thread)

And success in politics for women seems to be associated with a strident ability to shout down the men

That seem to be what men do from what I've seen and I cannot begin to explain the level of disappointment I would feel if women copied that childish behaviour. Women are much better communicators than men and always have been blog.readytomanage.com/are-women-better-communicators-than-men/

'... despite the fact that an average male brain is around 10 percent larger than the female brain, the size of the brain is unrelated to either a person’s intelligence or skill in communicating (both talking and listening). The determining factor is connections and in this regard the female brain has more “connections” between the brain’s two hemispheres. Females also have more than 10 percent more brain cells than males in the area of the brain called the planum temporale, which has to do with perceiving and processing language.'

'[women] have around 10 percent more neurons in the area of the brain devoted to emotions and memory. Because they have more “mirror neurons” they are also better at observing emotions in others. Females in studies have regularly been shown to excel at sensing what people are feeling well ahead of being discernible via the senses while males, on average, have difficulty spotting an emotion unless it can be seen or heard.'

So when it comes to interacting with anyone, in order to get information/instruction across, I think women are more suited to the job.

Trisha, you are wrong. A bishop's role is pastoral. The admin is mostly done by the Dean.

As for women being successful in politics, it has nothing to do with shouting down men. It's about being true to one's principles and being brave. And being good at networking and understanding systems. That goes for men as well a women.

Love her or loathe her,Margret Thatcher was most positively a very strong women.And guess what,she wasn't a feminist.

And let me add,you couldn't climb any higher.

Our bishop, completely ignored the problems we were having with our late rectum rector until there was a possibility the police might be involved.
I, for one, was not impressed by him or his predecessor who both allowed the parish to become divided and two very nice and capable priests to have nervous breakdowns and be hounded out of the clergy.

And they were religious?Galen

Come on Mark1 you're going to have to do better than that.

JessM
A woman doing the top job in the country?
Please advice.

The priests wre more religious than the (rectum as we in the choir called him) rector or the bishop.

I've heard of muscular Christianity but this thread takes the biscuit.

Do bishops need to have great muscular strength, Marmark?

I'm confused now.Ok,fair enough,it don't take much.

It is no good believing that everyone is born equal when within society they are not treated equally. That is why 'feminists' (men can be feminist too!) campaign for greater actualequality for women.

There is a difference, Marmark between feminists and radical feminists.

Love her or loathe her,Margret Thatcher was most positively a very strong women.And guess what,she wasn't a feminist.

' In February 1952, Thatcher—then a 26-year-old aspiring politician—wrote an article for a popular tabloid, The Sunday Graphic, expressing the hope that Elizabeth II’s recent ascension as Queen of England would “help to remove the last shreds of prejudice against women aspiring to the highest places” and usher in a new era for women. Deploring the “mistaken” idea that the family suffers when women combine marriage and motherhood with careers outside the home, she cited the inspiring examples of outstanding women in various fields—and warned that unless female success becomes more common, “we shall have betrayed the tremendous work of those who fought for equal rights.” This call to action was titled, “Wake Up, Women.”'

'As a politician, Thatcher did not focus on “women’s issues”—partly because, notes historian Amanda Foreman, she had to avoid being pigeonholed into a female political ghetto. (Because of that, Foreman says, she gave up her early effort while in Parliament to change the tax code to incorporate the costs of child care.) However, she always supported abortion rights, saying that “one of the worst things anyone can do in this world is to bring an unwanted child into it,” and generally strongly believed that the government should not play Big Brother on social issues.'

'In 1988, [Margaret Thatcher] angering traditionalists in the Anglican Church, she spoke out in favor of women’s ordination to the priesthood.'

'She [Thatcher] also angered feminists by warning against a generation of “crèche” (day care) children; her issue, however, was not with working mothers but with government programs that she was convinced had grown so large as to threaten liberty.'

'Another leftist female journalist who makes no secret of “hating” Thatcher even while conceding that she broadened horizons for women, Zoe Williams, concedes that Thatcher’s relentless assault on the power of labor unions—bastions of traditional working-class manhood—likely facilitated and sped up women’s entry into the labor force.'

She did her bit