Not sure what to do

Rolypoly55, I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.

My upbringing was similar - with my dad constantly picking on me. Unfortunately it had dreadful consequences: lack of self-esteem, being shy, constantly frightened of doing anything wrong. I became depressed and was finally diagnosed with depression in my early 20's. Don't get me wrong - dad was a good father and very much a hands on chap who would take us down to the beach, play with us, teach us to swim, a good provider. (Things mum couldn't do because of crippling RA).

I had counselling later on in life, which helped, but after my dad's death I talked about it with mum. It closed a chapter in my life and from then on I became a happier person. Mum was sad that it had affected me so badly and said she didn't realise it. I advised that each of us siblings handled things differently.

I'm not sure what the long term effect will be on your grandchild but I am glad that you are aware of what is happening and have asked those on Gransnet for advice. Good luck with whatever you decide to do in the end.

Sara65

"Some of the responses are a bit strong" Yes you're right! But I am used to this comment!

I am a retired Psychologist and have worked in three main fields. In each one we were always aware of safety. The most important thing is to maintain safety. I worked in two hospitals and for a charity (sorry to those who know) replying to people who were in a particularly distressing situation.
In each place on the first contact we had to assess the client's safety or level of risk (and watch it all the time). If somebody writes to you, you sometimes have to "read between the lines" are they suicidal? How much danger might they be in from their abuser? Some people on the latter question would not even be aware of how dangerous their abuser might be for many reasons, often they simply are attuned to a level of fear and live with it as though it is natural.
Anyway to try not to bore you because I could go on for ever! We would give advice and support ranging from how to manage a low-level problem to how to get help in a crisis. We were not there all the tine so we could not second guess what might happen. I learned quickly that furnishing people with telephone numbers in case of crises, for example, was not an over-reaction. I also learned that the seemingly low-level problems sometimes turned out to be hiding something explosive.

Sorry if that was a long-winded way of saying that my background taught me it is safer to give people all the information just in case they need it and hope to God that they don't! I would rather have people laugh at me for being "over the top" than not give info to someone who might suddenly need it. Hope you can understand me! Thanks!

Sara65. Bother! I forgot! I was taught that if you write on a public forum there may be others, not just the person who first wrote in, who are needing help and they might need the extreme end of the information, if you know what I mean. Therefore cover the spectrum of where to get help from something simple and easy to the crisis end. You just never know who might need it and it's only a couple of words.

Tillybelle

Thankyou for taking the trouble to explain,

You obviously are looking at the situation in a professional way, whereas I, with no background in psychology, am just reacting as if a friend was telling me this worrying tale.

I also am concerned for the little girl, if it was one of my grandchildren I’d be very upset, I only feel that what’s said, can’t be taken back, and if the son takes offence, and stops visiting, the situation will be worse

I think it’s great that people such as yourself are here to offer expert advice, but I’m sure psychologists need a few more facts to work with than we have here

Point taken about other people searching for help in your reply

Are we sure this grandma was actually hoping for "professional" help from a psychologist? Maybe a bit OTT.

Probably not Gonegirl, but I guess it’s always useful to have a professional opinion

Sara65. Make no mistake - I'm retired and I only offer my ideas as a friend also. I do some things from experience - like the safety angle I explained above. I was addressing why I sometimes tell people where to get help if things seem serious even if it doesn't seem to be serious, that's all!
You are right - I tried to explain, on the amount we have here we - all of us - can only offer our best suggestions and support, knowing that we don't know all the situation. That's what I tried to explain. The good thing is, there are a lot of people concerned to help and people with different experiences such as TwinLolly who can write what they know. Then the person needing help has an array of ideas and support and can use that which she knows is right for her situation! I always trust the people who write in. They know which suggestion is good for them and which is inappropriate. It doesn't matter if someone makes a suggestion that isn't right for the situation so long as it is made with good intentions and constructively. We don't have enough info to know exactly what would work. That's the whole point! We just do our best and leave it to the OP to know what will be useful for her.
But - it's important to me that you know I'm only here as a friend, like you and everyone else!

When it comes right down to it, none of us are offering professional help, all we can give is our opinions and perhaps some helpful links along with our advice.

The OPs can give only partial information on their problems and we, from our own skill sets and personalities, try to come up with something helpful.

Reading between the lines is open to interpretation and often dangerously assumptive.

Thus it's great that some play devil's advocate; some suggest a bit of back-pedaling and others (self-included) want to stomp right in and take no prisoners!

That's the beauty of a forum like this which gives every spectrum of opinion and allows a pick-and-mix response for the OP.

GoneGirl I do hope you understand what I said. I do use my experience as I am sure do you! But I am retired and am not doing anything in a professional capacity anymore! So please do not think I am here in any other capacity than as a friend on GransNet like everybody else who writes in.

I love the people who write on GNet, they are, in the vast majority, so supportive and kind to each other. This thread is a very good example IMHO.

It's only a few times that people ask me why I said something and this time I explained it was the "better to be safe than sorry" explanation that comes from my experience when I was working. I know people here often draw on the knowledge and experience of their working life so it's quite normal to do so.
(P.S. You and I have something in common!!)

BradfordLass72. Thank you! For putting so well what I struggled to say!

I hope my quote of "reading between the lines" in one of my replies above was not misunderstood. It referred to the time after I retired when I worked in a small charity and we answered letters and disseminated information to people who were victims of a certain type of person - bullies would cover it! We used to have to try and assess how much at risk our writer was on each letter and that's the only thing I meant when I used the expression"reading between...". What we did, anyway was never to assume a person was not at risk. We gave them all the options so that if necessary they had the info for dealing with a crisis. I was explaining that this experience - of giving all the info, was something that has stayed with me now I am retired. So I believe in letting people have somewhere to turn if things go very wrong, even if things don't seem likely to do that. It's just a safety precaution!

I just love your sentence so much I want to write it again:

That's the beauty of a forum like this which gives every spectrum of opinion and allows a pick-and-mix response for the OP.

Thanks BradfordLass72 You are a star! ⭐️

TwinLolly I just can't go to bed without saying how moved I feel by your letter. I am just so sorry that your childhood and youth were affected by shyness, fear and depression. I too still have bouts of depression so I truly sympathise. Your letter is so beautifully written. I am sure that Rolypoly will be enormously helped by it. I think support from those who have had the experience and really know what it is like is the very best support of all. It is so kind of you to share the sad story of what happened to you and to tell us the whole life course that was the effect of your dad's picking on you.

You really deserve to be happy. I wish you every joy possible. God bless you. Elle x ?☀️?

Hi, yes she is otherwise would have spoken up before, it's only recently...

I agree with Bradford. YOU must not see yourself as some secondary person who happens to be passing by... the fact is, your son's partner is literally the one passing by. I would never seek permission. I would speak out and the devil takes the hindmost. Just sit her down and say... I wish to talk to you... I am not happy with your approach to MY Granddaughter ... I will not allow it... tell her how it evolves into a growing child. DO NOT tell her YOUR personal past history. It is YOUR duty to speak for the Granddaughter.

I can really relate to this. My adult Stepson has three children, 7, 5 and 2. The eldest is actually his Stepchild but he has been her ‘father’ since she was 15 months old. Her biological father has no interest in her. My Stepson and his partner split 16 months ago and the children stay with us every other weekend. Almost all of the childcare falls to me (long story) but when my Stepson has any involvement with the kids he constantly snips at the eldest child, who is very bright girl and will verbally answer back (not rudely, but with that razor sharp insight small children often have). I have had a go at my Stepson about it and once a blazing row. When we were both calm I said I didn’t object to him disciplining her, but it was the way he bellowed at her. We had a frank conversation (I was treading more diplomatically than I now relate) and I made the point his behaviour was intimidating to a small girl. He did actually take it on board and there have been no further incidents. It is a delicate path to walk, but I always figure that the children need us to stand in their corner and so I do. Good luck in moving forward on this

UPDATE
Morning everyone, I had the conversation with my son re my concerns. Has had the conversation last night with his partner already which I am relieved that something has been said.. He holds his hands up that he is the one who should have been taking responsibility, all too easy to let the woman isn't it. The conversation we had is private but left me feeling reassured... I shall be watching closely.... Come what may she is his 1st priority...... So pleased we had our chat. Thanks for all your feedback.... Our little ones are so precious,

You are so right, I am relieved that we have now had the conversation, yes we have to stand their corner.....

So glad you had the conversation, Rolypoly, and that it went well. I'm also glad DS (dear son) realizes his child should be his responsibility. While it's not unusual to let a SP (step-parent) do some of the parenting, IMO, the bio parent needs to stand up for their child if the SP is being abusive.

It's possible DS' partner did not realize she was committing emotional abuse. She might have thought she was supposed to correct the child, and just didn't realize she has been doing it too often/about too many things. Or she may have a lot more/stricter priorities than you do, Roly. Also, given her lack of experience in raising children, chances are, there are things she really doesn't understand. She may get quite a big surprise if/when she has a child of her own.

Then again, she may be the mean, spiteful person some posters have suggested. She may be jealous of GD or see her as a reminder of your son's X.

Regardless, as others have said, the child has to come first. It was very brave of you to go to DS, and, IMO, GD is very lucky to have you in her corner. I just hope DS' partner listens to him and that this all doesn't backfire on you. You've taken a big chance, but, IMO, it was worth it for GD's sake.

If his partner changes her behavior towards GD, wonderful! If she doesn't, please keep being a positive, loving, encouraging force in GD's life. I like the suggestion of having her overnight, as often as possible, and building her self-esteem whenever you can.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Good for you, a weight off your mind I’m sure

BTW, I'm glad you didn't go to Social Services at this point. Emotional abuse is hard to prove aJund it might have led nowhere. Plus if DS and partner so much as suspected you were the one who contacted SS, your visits w/ GD may have been stopped. Unfortunately, that could happen even now, but, IMO, there would be more risk of that if they thought you went to SS. Just too drastic a step, IMO, if you hadn't really talked to DS first.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't advocate for anyone to tell someone how to parent their child or stepchild. But that changes when abuse is involved, whether physical or emotional. Once again, bravo to you for speaking up!

Don't! You will lose your GD and regret saying anything. I know the pain and consequences of doing the right and proper thing when you see something untoward. No one will support you and it will be used as a stick to beat you if you challenge anything. Take it from someone who knows. Best thing you can do is shower your dil with attention, and tell her what a good mum she is, yes you read that right. Do it for your gd sake so you can keep being able to see her. Devise coping strategies for your gd, like humour and lightheartedness. These are the tools she needs to cope with a critical mother.

Rolypoly55. Well done for the conversation! I am so glad it went well. It is great to hear how well your DS reacted and agreed it was his place to take the lead and make sure his DD was being treated well. I do hope he can get through to his "very verbal, never wrong" girlfriend! But then, if she loves him she will want to please him and should listen to what he says.

I agree with you that you will need to keep a close eye on your DGD. But your DS knows this so he will probably maintain his position of making sure she is treated well and the g/friend speaks to her kindly.

With every good wish for a very happy future and a close and happy relationship with your delightful granddaughter, who I sincerely hope grows up in a happy, loving and supportive atmosphere at all times. Elle x

Glad you are feeling abit more settled.

Yes some men do let woman in their lives do much of the hands on parenting and discipline, even if they are not the child's biological mother. This sounded the case in the first post. Glad you have had a chat and cleared the air so to speak, now I've read you're other posts.

Starlady. I think the mention of the Social Services was as a last stop place if the OP was unable to bring about a happy resolution by other means. I don't think it was advice to do it straight away, but just so people know that the safety net is there if a situation becomes too serious.
When I make suggestions I like to set out a range of ideas because I don't know all about the people involved or all about the circumstances. I think the person asking for ideas and help is always able to know which suggestions will suit her situation best and will make the right choice for her.

Rolypoly55 well done for having the conversation which may not have been very easy.

All the best to you, your family and of course the DGD.