To high to poo

rosequartzhttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jul/08/michael-gove-education-curriculum-fractions
I mentioned fractions as an example of formal teaching as it was in the news recently. Bear in mind that summer born children will only just be five when they join Y1 following the foundation year ( or have they gone back to calling it reception-so many changes in education I can't keep up), where they will have the daily numeracy hour I presume. Dunno.....gave up teaching five years ago.

DGS didn't start school until last Friday, so only had one day before the weekend - and loved it. This week, after three days on the trot, the reaction is starting to show. He is coming home very very tired and doesn't want to get up in the morning.

School is so ..... big. It is a big city 19th century school building and even though his Pre-school was on the same site and he has an older sister there and has friends from Pre-school in his class, for a not tremendously robust child who is only a month or two past his 4th birthday it is currently very exhausting.

My son (aged 20 now) is a March baby and started school in January just two months short of his 5th birthday, only one term in reception then on to year 1 but he was ready. The school then had 3 intakes, then moved to 2, and I believe now has only 1. When we announced that our daughter was on the way, with an October birthdate, my SiL ( a primary teacher) said 'good planning'. DD started school in Sept just short of her 5th birthday but then had 3 terms in reception. I dont like the idea of just turned 4s going to full time school, but then again, many are in full time nursery by 2 so perhaps the day isnt too long for them.Mine both went to nursery for two short days and village playgroup for 1 day a week, and then went to school with the children from playgroup which made for a simple transition.

Easiest job in the world! Home by 3.45

Don't mind if I do , Thank you rose

Piece of Penstemmon

I think DGD (4 + 3 days) seemed to take it in her stride socially, although she got very tired.
Phonics is another story which was another thread!

As I have said when this starting school debate begins, it is not about the fact that some children are just 4 when they start school it is about what the school does for those little ones! A good reception class will manage the children carefully, provide plenty of interesting play activities, gently introduce new challenges to develop skills, plenty of outside activities and a gradual intro. to the more formal life of school as the teachers assess the children are ready to do this..some will be ready now, others not until later in the school year! It's so easy being a teacher

Parents should apply for a place in the September of the year their child turns five. However they are entitled to to request that their child starts in the term after 5th birthday (when parents legally responsible for ensuring education). Problem is that this means missing Reception for Summer born children. Wherever you draw a line there will be younger and older children.
Glad the school spotted the situation quickly and got the step for him. my grandson is a summer born and he has got on fine both socially , emotionally and cogntively..but each child/school will be different.

Sorry, we've been tryng for centuries! I won't get started here - lots on other threads - but I am genuinely happy that my family has never been subjected to the dreaded SAT's and, until recently the ghastly Gove. No free school fiasco either.

My teaching career did of course have stresses and difficulties but I never felt the system was intrinsically unfair.
Sorry to refer back to 18 September but these are some of the issues which make Scots stop and think hard about their choices.

With a son about to embark on a teaching career and a (nearly) D inL a young doctor I sincerely hope their careers don't take them south.

Well mcem I have learnt something new. I had no idea the Scottish system was different. Not the only thing that is better in Scotland - child care law works better as I believe does mental health law. Are you sure we can't tempt you to stay and civilise us English?

Sorry Nightowl it isn't the UK system. Here in Scotland my DGS started in mid-August at 5 yrs 5 months. This week he switched from mornings-only to full day. There's one entry date. Children must start in August if they turn 5 by Christmas. Parents have some discretion and children with birthdays up to the end of February may start in the August before or may hold off until the following August when they're 5 plus. It works and no poor wee souls of 4 and a few days are struggling in primary 1. The youngest have birthdays in late February so are at least 4yrs 5 months.
DGS is enjoying school but still has a tired and grumpy spell around 4.30!

DGS in Beijing has just started school full time (big boys class in the nursery) at the age of 5 (July baby). He still had afternoon naps until he was 5 but is now at school from 8.15am until 4.30pm and is finding it tiring. I have no idea how he would have coped here a year ago. 4 is far too young.

atqui I thought that the reception class concentrated on play-based learning.
Fractions don't enter into the equation ( nor equations for that matter).

Perhaps someone who is up-to-date with teaching methods could enlighten us.

I think expecting just 4 year olds to start full time formal learning is just plain bonkers. Thank goodness DGS has a September birthday. The system in the UK seems to be far out of step with most of Europe and their children seem to come out of it ok. But perhaps I am looking at it from a different angle to most people, having had a son who hated nursery, hated school, and was eventually statemented for school phobia. Not all children are fine once their parents have gone and not all of them grow out of it. And with two older children who sailed through school without difficulty I have long since stopped blaming myself for it too. I think it's the system that's wrong, not the children.

Sorry this has strayed away from the OP somewhat.

My DD announced today that she was so 'positive and encouraging' when taking him to school today that she never realised she could speak in such a high voice. That she was sure she could hear the dogs responding the other side of town. No tears today just a tantrum and holding fast to the pram handle. Had to be prised off. I think her and DGD are having a well deserved 'duvet day' today.

Sorry if I've deviated from the lavatorial subject, which must cause distress for some little ones.

I so agree about the formal learning Nellie . People in power often hold up Scandinavia as the perfect role model, but their children don't start formal stuff until they are six. What they need at 4 and 5 is play and creative activities, not fractions!

Sadly they only do the one intake now, in September.

Nellie I remember the days when there was the September intake, the Christmas intake and the Easter intake too.

Aka If the classes are full they are full and for all sorts of reasons some schools are under a lot more pressure for places than others, particularly if there is little choice where you live, say in a rural area.

Flower I think a lot of children put on a show for parents when they are being left at nursery or school.
My DGS does it sometimes but the minute he sees something interesting going on or his friend says hello he is off like a shot and is always happy there.

Its not the early age at which they start school itself these days which is the problem but how young they are when they seem to be being pushed into early more formal learning.
DD is an August birthday and went to school at the Easter before. Luckily she was ready and the were a whole bevvy of little girls with late birthdays she already knew well.

Icy I've never heard of that before, but I do believe you and Jen, just amazed. I really feel for summer babies, especially those, like my oldest GS, born in August.
My youngest GS is a July birthday too. He's just starting school now. A confident, outgoing child who makes friends easily. Fully potty trained years ago, but his little arms aren't really long enough, if you get my drift ...but he does his best.

I do feel for you Flower and your DD when trying to get the little man to school. Our GS for some reason took against going to Nursery School. We were designated to take him one day and he sobbed and begged us not to take him. We felt terrible and I was upset for days that we had forced him to go. I can feel the tears now.

However my DinL said he was fine when she picked him up from Nursery and he asked recently 'Aren't I going to Nursery today ?' He is now going to Pre-School and those bad memories have gone. You will all get through it, in the blink of an eye he will be going to Uni.

Aka my DS with an August birthday wasn't allowed to start until he was 5 either - 1981 Lincolnshire. Round here now in a Wilts village, if you don't take an offered place at 4+, you almost certainly won't get your most local school, and it will be the next village 5 or 6 miles away. Pressure of numbers but quite an 'incentive'.

Four seems very young for school. GS1 was a month off five when he started. He was advanced for his age but still found it quite a big thing to start with. He started in reception with most of his friends from pre school. When my two started school they went to the little village school, which had three classes covering five to eleven year olds. They stayed in each class until they seemed ready to move up to the next one.

They are very small toilets I think it's just that he always insists to poo on his pot. They are using the loo seat at home now so hopefully it will resolve itself.

Today he was beside himself when going into school. My poor DD was sobbing when she phoned me a little later. His teach had to coax him in with some effort. She received a phone call 40 minutes later from the teacher to say that he had settled and had stopped crying within a couple of minutes.

I feel he is so so young, they still need quite individual attention at that age.

Flower How high are the toilets?

I can't remember if I read it on here or someone told me that they had built a wonderful new primary school somewhere but that the infant toilets were full-size and some of the little ones couldn't reach them.