school rules gone mad

Is this a happy and well-run school in general, or is one department often at odds with another?

The school administration team have a lot on their plates. All the non-teaching things that keep the school running fall to them, and they all happen at once and are urgent (at least to the people most concerned at that moment) But is it going to impinge on them?

Is it the administrators who will have to do the injections? It sounds as though the staff who have had the training are Ok with it, so it is not the administrators themselves who are digging their heels in about adding to their responsibilities.

Is it the teachers? If so, what has it to do with administrators? If members of staff are happy to do it, and the head teacher has passed it, surely it can be done at a set time and not inconvenience the administrators.

Is it the head teacher? If so, why are they described as "administrators"? A head teacher is a head teacher, not an admin bod.

I'm trying so point out it isn't as straightforward as just having a couple of staff trained and willing.

1) The child cannot carry his own insulin around with him. It will have to be kept stored securely so no other child can get it. There will gave to be a designated cupboard or similar,,and who will hold the key? What happens if that person is ill, off work, etc?
2) There will have to be sufficient in school to cover his needs, so will it be brought in daily or weekly or half-termly? This will have to be agreed with the family, as to how it will be brought to school, by a responsible adult. What is the procedure if the supply is depleted?
3) A record will have to be kept, in a designated book, of amount given, time, and by whom. This is after potentially damgerous medication. Should there be an incident, where blood sugar drops too low, then staff need to show a paper trail they have given the correct dose at the correct time.
4) Where will the insulin be administered? To protect the child's dignity it needs to be a private area where other children or staff are not likely to barge in.
5) What happens at lunch time or break if the child shows sign of hypoglycaemia? Are the welfare staff sufficiently clued up to recognise the signs? Are other children? And if they are do they know what action to take?
6) What about PE lessons? Swimming? Music? These days many schools buy in specialists to take these lessons. Are they aware of the child's condition.
The same applies to out-of-school hours activities.

And so on...All this will have to be written into an individual plan for that child. This is not the same as asking the class teacher to give little Johny his 5ml of antibiotic at lunch time. Incidentally you need to take in a note if you want the teacher to do that nowadays too.

All I'm saying is, cut the school some slack. There are strategies that need to be put in place for the safety of all concerned. Can you imagine the public outcry if, for example, the child had a hypo at the swimming baths and the reaction from the swimming instructor was 'nobody told me'?

This isn't H&S run mad, this is called joined-up thinking.

Sorry for the lecture!

Come on, Anya. That has to be done for every child who has an illness or disability. What we are saying is that nowadays it should not be a problem.
There must be quite a few other children in the school who have to have action plans.
Every trip out of school has to have a health and safety assessment, even what would happen if x was run over while crossing the road.
No school would be so remiss that they would allow a diabetic child to go swimming without telling the instructor. In my experience, the teacher stays with the class having swimming lessons anyway.

I'm still that the little chap's family might have to remove him and his siblings if the school doesn't agree.

It's appalling when steps are already in place to manage his insulin.

Anya I think most schools should be able to manage this with some good proper guidelines and specific first aid training.

H& S seems to be being used as an excuse here. Yes every so often a child will be injured in school because they are kids and do silly things. Staff appear to be able to cope then.
All it needs is that all staff should have some basic first aid training and awareness. All staff could be quickly taught the basics of what to do and what not to do in a health, or accident emergency until a dedicated first aider arrives.
They are expected to be competant at fire drills etc.

My local village school manages children with severe nut allergies, bee and wasp sting allergies, asthmatic children and no fuss is made at all.

I agree Nelliemoser

With the greatest of respect I think you will find that this effective management is the result of careful behind the scenes planning and policy.

I think your rather casual approach Nellie could result in disaster.

I didn't know that steps were already in place regarding my points 1-4 .... have I missed something?

YHAC!!

My child carried his own insulin around with him and regularly went swimming , played games and went on all the school trips from the age of 10 when he developed Type 1. And when I went to tell the Head my DS had been diagnosed with diabetes, the first thing he said was, 'My staff can't be responsible for looking after him'. He even refused to allow the paediatric diabetes nurse to go into school to talk to the staff. There are lot more children with chronic illnesses in mainstream schools now and I'm glad parents and their children should now get the support they need. And schools get funding for statemented children!

Do you know anything about insulin and diabetes, Anya?

Diabetics usually carry around insulin pens which contain enough for about a month's supply, depending on dosage. Therefore it will be unusual for it to run out on school premises. Pens do actually tell you how much there is left in them.
All that's needed is for the child to know exactly where it is kept.
Diabetics keep records themselves of how much and when, as well as blood sugar levels, so that will not be a problem. He just needs to be taught how to do it and what it means.

Whenever any of my grandchildren have needed privacy, they are taken into the teacher's toilet area, with a chair to sit on, etc. Not diabetic, but the principle is the same.
Injections these days can be given through clothing, into the stomach area or top of the leg or buttocks. Don't have to be, but they can.

There is no need these days for schools to be obstructive, whoever is doing the obstruction.
The idea these days is to try and make the diabetic child feel as if he is as normal as possible, not to make him feel unwanted.

The diabetic child I mentioned up thread had to wear a special chest harness because of his condition. I presume it was because of the severity and complicatedness of his illness. I'm wondering now if the conditioon of the child mentioned in the OP is more complicated than usual and that's why there is hesitation from the school.

Also, we don't actually know all the facts of the case so we can hardly jump to perfect conclusions about what should and can be done.

Many thanks all of you for all your comments and kind thoughts. I've been off line for a while due to laptop dying. Today I have looked after GS all day while Mum and Dad at work, along with his 3 siblings. My worst moment was when I pressed the sharps bin lid closed then realised its permanently sealed. GS is getting more confident with his bloods and pen injections and treats the dosage calculations as extra maths lessons. School is closed for half term holidays next week so I guess we will have to wait a little longer for their answer, they recently changed from local authority to academy after two years in special measures so a lot of changes for all concerned....here's hoping!!! Off for a small glass of something cold, then doing it all again tomorrow. Nite all.

Fingers crossed common sense prevails nanamacatj !

Anya..schools have all the things you mentioned in place.

There will a be method of record keeping in place.
There will be a safe place to store the insulin.
The key will be on a key hook in the key box.
The child will be able to receive his injection away from prying eyes.
Staff will be aware of the changes in behaviour, colour etc that show that insulin or sugar is needed. The diabetic children I worked with had an emergency pack containing a few biscuits and a sugary drink that could be given if necessary.
Information will be passed to instructors on a need to know basis. Supply teachers will be informed.

The SENCO will have discussed the child's needs with the diabetic nurse and will have been given a care plan. This plan will be available to all staff members.

In my career I worked with children with a variety of medical needs including diabetes, cystic fibrosis, muscular dystrophy and cerebral palsy. Each child's needs were met and all took part in internal and external activities. Schools are inclusive and as such are quite able to meet these needs.

There was an article in the Sunday Express about diabetes today. It quoted the case of a seven year old girl who was diagnosed when she was three. Several teachers at her school have been taught to give the injections if necessary and she is used to testing her glucose levels before eating or doing sports. It all seems to work very smoothly.

Keep your hair on DJ. As I said earlier I must have missed that fact that this school already has all that in place. It came across from the OP that this school didn't have this system already set up or a policy in place. Why else would they seek legal advice? But VQ tells us this is not the case.

I don't know why all this anger came my way, when I said I have every sympathy with the family, but tried to put the school's position across too

For the school to be seeking legal advice, there must be something about this particular case that is different from usual.

I wondered about that too bags

It could be that what the child requires is different from usual, or it could be that the school admin does not think all the necessary safeguards are already in place for one reason or another. We don't know.

Has your DD been told about Diabetes UK? Their website has a very detailed and helpful section on children and schools and all the legal framework. They also run a Care in schools helpline . Although a diagnosis of a type 1 in a young child is very frightening, the support services available, like DUK are amazing. They will offer help, information and support as your family embark on this life long journey. Mumsnet almost certainly have a thread on this as well and again this will contain posts with up to date advice and experience.

Even if the Diabetes team have done their training and 2 members of staff have volunteered to help the school will still need to check that they are fully covered as far as insurance goes. This is the unfortunate effect of the litigation culture that now exists. I have known schools have to pay substantial sums for accidents on school premises, some of which might have been considered the fault of the parents-toddler climbs and falls in school yard, before the school is even open- the school still had to pay. It is awful, but it is the world we now live in.

I'm not sure this is the same sort of thing. A school has to be inclusive and should have systems in place to deal with this sort of eventuality.

Of course it's the same 'sort of thing'. If something went wrong, because safeguarding policies were not sufficiently stringent, then the school would be liable.

If there is a care plan in place and it was followed then there is no negligence and therefore no liability.

I think Anya has given a detailed and obviously knowledgeable explanation of what has to happen for this child to be properly cared for.

I have a strong feeling, having read this thread, that I could easily name those who would be up in arms if, in another school, this careful approach to a non-teaching issue was ignored and something went wrong. There is a strong flavour of "I know my rights" going on.

I also wonder what the OP's DD's relationship is with the school currently. That may have had some bearing on them ensuring they had covered all the bases.