To be horrified ....

Exactly as I said Aka my grandchildrens school is in a deprived area and the school obviously "rip off" the parents who always pay, to take into account the parents who cannot or choose not to pay!

I am even more angry now !

So basically the school/government are doing exactly as Gillybob said, expecting those who do pay to also cover the costs of those who don't/can't.

I suppose the answer for your family Gillybob is not to pay.

If that's the case, I think parents should ask the school to provide a breakdown of the costs for a visit. Then the costs will be transparent. In theatre trips accompanying adults go free and I imagine that's the case in other paying venues. If the school is asking those who pay to subsidise those who can't or won't, that's not legal. My understanding is that 'School Fund' can be used to do this. That is, money from bazaars, summer fêtes and so on.

I did think about that Riverwalk but then thought better of it as this would push the costs up even higher and/or deprive the children of the outing altogether.

Yes MiceElf I think I will do just that when they announce the inflated cost for the pantomime visit although I suspect I am already noted as a busy body for daring to question their policy on other matters.

I wouldn't have thought that depriving a 5-year old of a visit to a synagogue would do her much harm!

As an aside, who on earth thought such a trip, at that age, would be a good idea?

All seems very unfair to me.

I agree Riverwalk Apparently the older children (year 2's) are "embracing different religions" and as she is a year 1 in a year 2 class she was part of "the trip".

I was angry at the letter that got sent home saying all little girls must wear tights and all boys had to bring a pull on hat !

I think I would be vexed too. It's the totally inappropriate curriculum that is to blame. That, and some ill informed teachers and advisors from the LAs who have devised this nonsense. All it does it present small children with a bewildering mess of barely digested and poorly understood cultural practices.

Precisely nothing to do with religious education.

And that's just the purpose of this particular trip. The cost is ludicrous and you're not being a busybody asking for a breakdown of the costs. The school should be informing patents of this as matter of course.

As for 'embracing' I could think of some very sharp comments that I would be making to the school about their use of language.

gillybob, the parents would be within their rights to opt their children out of such visits. I would. They are not compulsory and, as mice says, they achieve very little, if anything useful.

I do understand the use of a hired coach rather than public transport. It gets terribly complicated (adult/child ratio for one thing) if you can't get all the kids on one bus, for instance.

But, I say again, opt out. This kids don't have to go.

If the school is in a city there should be no need for private transport.

In London you see any number of primary school-age groups on buses with, from what I can see, a class of about 30 plus at least 4 teachers/helpers.

It's a lovely sight and other passengers, especially tourists, seem charmed by the driver switching off the engine and the whole gang trooping upstairs with the attendant shrieks and chatter, and the teachers yelling out instructions!

When they get off it's like a military operation - all the kids line-up on the pavement close to the shop windows in pairs whilst the teacher in charge does a head count then signals to the driver that it's safe to drive off!

Not a fan of expensive trips myself - very divisive under certain circumstances. Yes indeed the teachers do get free places. When I was governor various events made me lay down the law and put into governors policy that no teacher could take one of their own children on a school trip due to potential conflict and conflicts of interest. There was a sudden decline in enthusiasm for foreign trips.

When my DD was 6 I think, her school arranged a visit to a Mosque. Myself and a friend refused to allow our children to go (we are talking over 30 years ago). Our children were left behind, sat with the headmaster for the afternoon and had to do writing. I never dared to do it again and I think my daughter has only just forgiven me.

There is a surprise Jess !

Why did you refuse Liz?

gillybob I think my GC would have had a tummy bug that day. If they want to teach about other religions show a DVD of places of worship, I wonder who the trips out benefit ?

It was at the time when schools were only just expected to teach about other Faiths and parents were given the opportunity to opt out Riverwalk. i was very involved in my own church and when we were told that the children were expected to pray at the Mosque I was unhappy about it.

Given the same situation today I am not sure how I would react but we are talking 30 odd years' ago when such outings were rare.

Well, we opted minibags out of all religious observances while she was a primary school. She didn't mind at all being left behind to draw (her favourite activity) with a classroom assistant also left behind to supervise. She understood the reasons for our wishing her not to be involved in religious observances too.

I have no objection to religious education where children learn about different beliefs through the ages but I'm not having my kids kowtowing to a supposed superior being. Not on your nelly.

I had reservations about GD1 visiting a mosque a few weeks ago but now I'm glad she did because what she picked up on was that there was a much larger area for the men and a small area for the women. She thought it was stupid that they didn't mix and that the women were not treated the same as the men.

for many children a trip to a cathedral, or even the local Baptist chapel would be as alien as a trip to the mosque. Bring it all on I say, as how can they understand the politics of the modern world if they are not informed about various religions that hold such sway today? Not to mention understanding history and literature...
I very much enjoyed a visit to a Hindu temple once in Singapore. Leave your shoes outside along with everyone else's. Ogle the bright primary colours and images of gods everywhere. Quake in front of the baby-eating goddess shrine and enjoy the scent of the joss sticks. And just broaden the mind a little in the process.
Also the beautiful mosque in Cordoba which was vandalised horribly by a Christian monarch - by building an ugly cathedral thing inside it . Then go up the road to a little church were there are paintings of the Virgin sailing triumphant, with the sickle moon of Islam beneath her feet. And then contemplate the history of Spain.

Far far too expensive - it is very difficult for those parents for whom this is a huge chunk of their weekly budget - and for those children who have to be left out. We keep bit of money by in the PTA fund for these situations, so that no children feel left out, but it is a ridiculous idea to ask for that amount in the fist place.

Yes, Jess bring it on ..... a trip to the local mosque/synagogue but not for 5-year olds and charge the parents £10!

I visited the beautiful mosque in Cordoba just this September - truly breathtaking. For those who haven't been:

Cordoba

I recently spent a weekend in London during which we took my London grandchildren to St Paul's and the Museum of London then a huge fireworks display. 6 year old pronounced it all "BORING!"
How lucky city children are, so much to see and do and free public transport!
Our village children get none of that unless parents take them, a huge expense for a whole family.

Visits are a pointless exercise at that young age.

Do talk about how different religions festivals work etc, but keep it simple and within the comprehension of young children.

I do actually think that is important whether or not you believe anything yourself. It's just general education.

I didn't realise how lucky we are here in Queensland Australia. My lads went to a minimum fee Catholic school, and one lad teaches at that secondary school now. (Not that any of us are believers any more, but no-one cares these days)

They have buses belonging to the school so these are used for trips. My lad teaches ancient history and study of religion, so he likes to take the kids to synagogues, mosques, orthodox churches, Anglican etc in order to give them an understanding of the various cultures and relgions. He also invites various clerics to give a lesson/lecture/Q&A.

btw, their favourite cleric among the different religions was the local Rabbi.