eduating youngsters

Totally agree mabon, My C and GC were toilet trained, able to use a knife and fork, could dress themselves (as well as a 4 yr old can) and had been taught manners before starting school.

Unless there is an obvious problem i.e. disability etc.

It comes down to lazy parenting in my opinion, no doubt some gn’s will have excuses for these things not happening.

Manners and behaviour but not toilet training unless a child has special needs. If so a TA should be employed.

Bad behaviour has to be addressed with parental help if 3 Rs are to work. Hard to learn to read it you prefer to sling chairs around and tell everyone to f off.

Manners have always been a school's role....please, thankyou, sharing, thinking about others, waiting your turn etc..........

Manners have always been a school's role....please, thankyou, sharing, thinking about others, waiting your turn etc..........

Not in any school I was at, and I went to a lot. Or at least only to the extent that they contributed to the good management of the school.

A teachers job is to impart knowledge and manage the classroom to see that happens.

The rest is the responsibility of parents and Social Services.

I taught my children to sit nicely at the table, use a knife and fork, and to ask politely to leave the table when they were finished. They were both toilet trained before they started nursery school aged 3.
I do not think it is the responsibility of the school to teach these things, although my sister was a school dinner lady, and found that she had to teach some of the reception age children to use knives and forks.

With reception class children in particular some schools do face greater challenges than others and I believe there are some dedicated teachers and teaching asssistants in some areas that do the best they can outside what might be considered their normal remit.

Schools reinforce good manners, but they ought already to be instilled by parents. Pity some parents don’t take this responsibility seriously.

Toilet training....certainly not!

It’s sad it’s necessary I meant to add

Did you not teach your children their manners then LullyDully? ?

Agree 100% with mabon1, the foundation of good manners, toilet training, table manners and good behaviour start with the parents before they start school. If good manners and good behaviour are not instilled in a child by the time they start school, it makes eveyones life more difficult. Why should teachers be expected to pick up the slack for poor parenting?

My grandson is the youngest child in his entire school. He knows how to use the toilet and how to behave at the table as well as treat other people kindly.

Both parents work full-time but they've still managed to instil all the niceties of life into him so it can - and should - be done (SN excepted).

To take a child into a toilet and maybe remove some clothing enabling them to go to the toilet could nowadays allow the teacher to be open to all sorts of accusations. You need to be very careful indeed. Also some children are shy or embarrassed and would rather wet or dirty themselves than use a toilet not in the home. DS had this problem with a DGS until he was completely comfortable with his new environment.
They should also be able to use cutlery and get themselves dressed although perhaps still need a little assistance.

What sort of world do you think people live in? Do you suppose the mum who proudly announced the price the shoplifter had charged for her child's expensive shoes was going to teach moral values? Do you imagine the mum who collected her children after she had spent the day drinking and got them chips on the way home would teach table manners?
Teachers deal with whatever comes in to their class room. They comfort children who are upset because dad hit mum. They try to teach taking turns to children who only know that the first grabs the biggest share. Behaviour, manners, respect and toilet training can all come into it. At the same time they teach the 3 Rs and try to reach their set targets. And quite often they battle against the local traditions and standards. Including the mums who stand watching as their sons fight and shout them on, undoing the "Tell a teacher, don't hit back" you have been teaching all afternoon.
(And these are all based on real events.)

I couldn't believe this sort of thing was happening. It's no thing short of disgraceful on the parents behalf. Many toddlers can't stand wet or soiled nappies next to their skin and these are the ones who are easy to train. Accidents in 3/4 year olds do happen but beyond that there's a problem.
When one of my GGC started in the nursery section of main-stream school,she was 3 and had wet herself in class and my GD was met at the gates by a " dragon-like " woman holding up the wet knickers and was horrified that she'd wet herself ! My GD removed her from the school.

Excellent post trisher. Teachers and a range of other professionals have to live in the world as it is as much as they would want it to be otherwise. The difference is that I bet the average teacher who teaches in schools with more than their share of challenging behaviours would support bringing back things like SureStart and having more teaching assistants rather than just judging

These were all examples whilst Sure Start was operating and there was a Barnados centre in the area as well. I had a TA. (thank goodness) I dread to think what situations are unfolding now. Some people have no idea about the way others live and the huge differences between children from different backgrounds. The cultural differences contribute so much to childrens' achievements and the cuts to education have been catastrophic for those who come into school already disadvantaged.

My dad always used to say that schools reflect rather than 'conduct' the societies they work in.

He was a teacher and a teacher educator.

Isn't it all so sad..

Yes children should be able to use a toilet and have basic social skills.
Is it down to "lazy parenting"....no, sadly life is a lot more complex than that.

Perhaps a small minority of parents are feckless lazy or cruel. Many more are horribly out of their depth and support is practically non existent. I am not ashamed to say middle class, resourceful me had to have therapy and parenting classes to support me. God help people nowadays, there is very little out there.

Just to add, a close family member works with children ,who after the worst abuse you can possibly imagine are fostered. Obviously the child , the foster families and the school need a great deal of support. It is now cut to the bone and this person has been asked to work without pay to maintain the service.

Times have certainly changed - or maybe I was lucky! When I taught Reception 50 years ago [yipes! That's a long time!] I experienced none of this problems. Yes, a little help here and there like helping get ready before and after PE but no toilet problems or problems with knife and fork.

To be fair, my MiL who was a reception class teacher and retired in 1976, did say that on occasion she had children start school in nappies, usually she said the youngest child where the mother didn't want to admit that he/she was her last baby.

In the 1970s, the catchment area around her school changed with the council buying a lot of the little Victorian terraces and using them to house problem families. She spoke then of unsocialised children who could not use cutlery or take themselves to the loo cleanly, had very limited vocabularies and had never held a pencil or knew what a book was for..

I do not have “the answer”.

To have a child is a privilege not a right.

Toilet training, using cutlery, saying "Please" and "Thank you", should all be the responsibility of the parents.

My sons could fasten their shoelaces, recite their name and address, and dress/undress themselves, well before they started school. I wonder if the lack of those skills are in any way due to the fact that so many mothers go to work now?

Manners have always been a school's role....please, thankyou, sharing, thinking about others, waiting your turn etc..........

those thing are taught at home, at an early age - or they should be