NHS on a war footing

Daisymae

Their words. Plans to treat Covid patients at home, monitoring oxygen levels etc. Discharging 10000 patients by the New Year. Obviously they don't know what they are going to have to deal with. We can only cross our fingers and hope for the best. I rather think that's government policy anyway.

It's the staff absences that worries me most. Nobody to look after patients in ICUs, nobody to drive ambulances.

I've been stood down as a ward volunteer. Probably sensible as one less person potentially contracting and spreading Covid but sad for the patients we were trying to support.

Last week local paper reported a party held by staff at an ambulance station in Suffolk. Some now ill. All totally against their rules. I appreciate that ambulance drivers and paramedics do a grim job and need to relax and forget for a while, but ... just how daft can people with medical training be?

I wonder how many of the NHS staff off sick are unvaccinated? Should have been made mandatory a long time ago.

Well done for being a volunteer Aveline. Sorry about the rant.

One of your most ill judged rants Germanshepherdsmum, my apologies on your behalf to all those NHS staff working in unbearably difficult circumstances this weekend and knowing all their Christmas and New Year leave will be cancelled. How dare you.

Not ill judged at all, I read the same report, and also think that mandatory vaccinations for all NHS workers should have happened last year!

But just for balance, why assume those off sick were unvaccinated? In my own family, one of my daughters and her husband were the most careful throughout the pandemic, both received vaccinations as soon as they were able. Both caught Covid along with their teenage son and were pretty ill with it. They couldn't have done more. I'd be pretty angry if anyone made the assumption that they were unvaccinated!

Casdon, how many NHS front line staff are still unvaccinated and putting themselves and their colleagues and patients at risk? It’s a disgraceful dereliction of duty. Vaccination for all carers should have been made mandatory a long while ago. Of course not all NHS staff who are sick are unvaccinated but I bet a fair number are.

Well I’m in Wales, and it’s 4% of NHS staff who haven’t had both the first two vaccines Germanshepherdsmum, I don’t know what the percentage is in England, but probably not much different. That is higher than all age groups except the over 80s. If every one of that 4% had permanent Covid it would not have the significant impact on staffing levels that your post implies.

Well I don’t know the figures for England either but 4% is quite a lot of people if you were to translate it into numbers and it’s not just the fact that they can catch covid more easily, they can also pass it on more easily and then of course more people get pinged and have to isolate…

Will those who are currently employed by the NHS and yet unvaccinated have to have their contracts of employment changed and would that be legal? Just thinking that those who might choose to resign will leave us with an even greater staffing problem.

Casdon

One of your most ill judged rants Germanshepherdsmum, my apologies on your behalf to all those NHS staff working in unbearably difficult circumstances this weekend and knowing all their Christmas and New Year leave will be cancelled. How dare you.

I agree with lemon grove not an ill-judged rant at all. Anyone involved with Covid or part of the NHS should have the common sense to practise what is being preached to the rest of us. All care home workers and NHS staff should be fully vaccinated they practise"Do as I say not as I do " just like the Government if they break Covid rules.If their circumstances are unbearable which they almost crtainly will become thay should ensure they stay healthy as possible.

Your assumption is flawed though Germanshepherdsmum. There is a record of vaccine status for every member of staff. Staff who are unvaccinated have been moved from front line patient contact roles because of the risk they cause to patients. The 4% also includes staff who are immune compromised, those are off sick or who are on maternity leave and haven’t informed the employer if they are vaccinated. As it stands currently in Wales there is no intent to make it law for staff to be vaccinated - there is no need to do so.

I don’t know how they are planning to manage it becoming compulsory in England - my guess is that the usual blunt instrument has been applied without consultation with the NHS, who will be managing it safely already I’m sure.

When the government finally decided on a no jab no job policy for the NHS they realised they would have to delay implementing it until the spring or they would lose too many staff over the critical winter period. It could have been done much earlier. It’s entirely legal and has been implemented with care workers already.

Kim19

Will those who are currently employed by the NHS and yet unvaccinated have to have their contracts of employment changed and would that be legal? Just thinking that those who might choose to resign will leave us with an even greater staffing problem.

Or even more patients than ever if they become the patients whilst choosing to work unvaccinated.

Very true Yammy.

Yes Yammy. Very fair point. Interesting indeed and so glad it's not my dilemma.

Germanshepherdsmum

Well I don’t know the figures for England either but 4% is quite a lot of people if you were to translate it into numbers and it’s not just the fact that they can catch covid more easily, they can also pass it on more easily and then of course more people get pinged and have to isolate…

Has it ever been proved that unvaccinated people pass on the virus more easily?

Some staff will choose to resign, but they will find it very difficult to find front line jobs in any care role in the UK. There is a get out clause in NHS staff contracts for any other duties, and the HR function is strong, so it will be done by negotiation with staff for the main part. Currently there are plenty of roles for staff who can’t have patient contact because of the pandemic changing the way people work, I guess what happens afterwards is another issue.

I had a post written about people who have a go at ambulance staff. But I deleted it.

Probably just as well.

It included the words "be ashamed of yourselves" and "ungrateful".

Thank goodness we still have no idea of what you really think Alegrias

Oh, I think you can guess Aveline

For years anyone working with blood in the NHS have had to have the Hep b vaccination,it was and probably still is part of their contract. If it was alright for people working in Xray units or Dialysis units to be told be vaccinated or work else where why is it wrong to implement such measures in the midst of a World wide pandemic. We need their skills and kindness to do jobs that others would not choose to do. I applaud them for that but not if the carrier becomes the patient through not doing what the rest of the country are expected to do.

I didn't work with blood in the NHS but I had to have the HepB vaccination. No problem. Just did it.

I guess part of the staff shortages is staff having to self isolate if a household member ( such as children) has Covid, as well as isolating of course if positive themselves. If lots of staff have to isolate or are off sick at the same time ( as sounds likely and is already happening) - is the problem not lack of vaccination.
Most patient facing staff are at least double vaccinated- but that doesn’t stop some from testing positive.