A very difficult situation-what to do?

I would phone the SW back and let them try and trace her. She is obviously putting her children at risk and needs help. The childrens safety is the most important thing here. What if she,d come around the corner and her child had been knocked down or someone had tried to abduct her? Very difficult situation for you well done for phoning in the first place others may not have.

Yes let the sw team know where the methadone was being collected, that will help identify the family. Having said that, I feel despair at the way the cuts are impacting on the services this family need

On reflection Katek, if the young woman was slurring and staggering, it sounds more like intoxicAtion than withdrawal. Methadone is a heroin substitute, maybe she'd been using h as so many people do, alongside or instead of prescription drugs.

What would the social workers do? Perhaps the pharmacy needs a rocket for only dispensing methadone late in the day.

Perhaps she only woke up late in the day to go and get her medication.

I phoned SW back this morning and brought them up to date with where I'd last seen the family. SW thought it was quite likely that they would be in their system already given the fact that mum was at the pharmacy for methadone. They had gone out to look for her yesterday but couldn't find her but are going to follow it up today.

Looks from what you say Iam64, that mum had been drinking before heading for the pharmacy. Sad state of affairs altogether.

Is methadone dispensed early in the day Jingl? I don't know how these things work.

I've only seen people queueing for it near closing time. I don't think patients can go and get it any old time. Perhaps that needs to change.

I don't think there is any reason to think she was drunk. Talk about looking for the worst in people! Sounds to me like she was trying hard to be a good mum, probably with little or no support.

Just out of curiosity, how was the colour of the child's hair relevant, katek?

I would hazard a guess that this is a mum whose methadone regime is not the only source of her drug use and she's reasoned that the most reliable source of her drugs can be obtained last, before the pharmacy closes. Sounds like she could have been gouching on heroin (sedated after using it earlier), in which case the pharmacist might have had concerns about supervising her taking the methadone, especially when she was in charge of three children.

You were right to notify social services, Kate. Things didn't look right and need sorting out.

Good point Jingl and I don't really have an answer. Possibly it was because she was so blonde it was that that first drew my attention to her. It just seemed part of the description/story somehow.

I don't know if the mother was off her face on alcohol or drugs but she certainly wasn't in any fit state to look after 3 very small children. I only hope that the family is getting support in these straitened times.

WhenI'm64 - I've never heard that term before, gouching. It's a whole different world isn't it?

Nor have I. What does it mean?

I hope people didn't use too much guesswork and speculation in their actual careers.

" gouching" short for "Oh I was a social worker. I know about these things"?

I just hope they don't make the situation harder for the mum. Doesn't sound to me like the children were in any more danger than a lot of kids often are.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen very young children either walking or on scooters with no parent to be seen [they eventually appear, usually on the phone ]. Scares me witless if I'm driving past.; if I'm walking I brace myself to grab them if they look to be in danger.

Unsupervised, running beside a very busy main road when she could have run out into the traffic at any time and a mother walking into walls clearly under the influence of some substance be it drink or drugs, and you think that the child wasn't at some form of risk Jingl?

Maybe a lot of other kids are often in a similar situation but that doesn't validate it! Perhaps all those other kids also need some interfering old biddy like me to stand up for them.

It was not an easy decision to make on the spur of the moment and overcome our great British reluctance to get involved, but in all conscience I couldn't walk away. You weren't there to see it Jingl, I was. It was my call and I can only hope it was the correct one for all concerned.

One person's interfering old biddy can be another person's life-saver, Kate. It's not a comfortable thing to do, intervening when you know you could get criticism or name-calling, but who can live with not acting and finding out that something awful has happened?

Katek

Difficult situation Katek. the urge to intervene seems to increase as we get older, but we can only do what seems the best thing at the time.

Katak,did you think that every child has a happy healthy mother and life's like Topsy and Tim?
When my daughter was out with a community midwife visiting a newborn she asked, "Shall I record that the Mum's on Methodone?" and was told, "Oh no, round here they very often are"

You did what you thought was best and it was a thoughtful and concerned action, but in some ways it reveals a lack of knowledge about the world some children live in. SW were probably being pleasant but probably wouldn't do much. Years ago I worked in a school in a very poor area, we had a mother who constantly turned up inebriated even when she brought her child in to the nursery in a morning. We told the head who grudgingly agreed to report it.It was recorded but the child was fed, clothed and cared for so nothing was done. The funny thing was that as she walked (staggered) through the estate other parents would let her walk their kids to school! Years later I learned that she had died an alcoholic and the father had taken the child to live with relatives in Scotland

Community midwives should already know who is on methadone as the agencies concerned share information. Methadone passes into breast milk, so this will be addressed in hospital before discharge and included in the notes. Even though there may be many people taking methadone it's still a Class A drug and has to be monitored - it isn't done publicly, so there's no reason why local people would know what is happening privately for any individual. Most people on a reducing methadone pogramne get on with it and won't show any signs, but someone who may be topping up with street drugs and not in control when in charge of children on the street is likely to need more support and the children's safety is paramount. The ones we see who don't appear to be managing or known to the authorities may be taking too many risks for their children's safety, so the authorities need the public to tell them.

If we were looking at this scenario after a child had been repeatedly left at risk of coming to harm and it hit the heaflines, everyone would be complaining about no-one doing anything to help the child. It's a judgement call that responsible adults make every day.

I think you did the right thing, too many people dont want to be seen as interfering or as busybodies and so ignore things. That is how Jamie Bulger got abducted. It sounds, from your description as if the children were not being ill treated or neglected though, but as you said, had one of them dashed off there would could have been a far worse situation.

Katek, I like to think I would have done exactly as you did.

Ladies, thank you so much for your concern about my perceived lack of understanding and inability to see the real world through the rose coloured lenses of my spectacles. I can assure you I am only too well aware of the difficulties faced on a daily basis by children and vulnerable adults throughout this country.

I do object to being patronised by those who do not know me and have absolutely no idea of my background, training or career.

FYI ex dh was (probably still is) an alcoholic, ex sister in law was a drug addict and died from an overdose aged 27 ( oh by the way, her daughter, now in her 40's, is in secure psychiatric accommodation and is likely to remain there. Her mother and friends thought it fun to get her stoned when she was a toddler, she had a real Topsy and Tim upbringing didn't she?) Then there was my neighbour Jean who spent half the 70's lying on the sofa off her face on Largactil. Her daughters were eventually taken into care and adopted. Another Topsy and Tim story don't you think?

I've visited dealers' houses (in a professional capacity) where the door had 6" steel plate fixed to the back to keep both junkies and police out and they kept a machete by the door just in case. Then there was the guy with a 4ft mound of J Collis Browne empty bottles and packaging behind the sofa, or Gavin, who carried a sword stick for protection. Saddest of all was the little girl who drowned in 2" of bath water upstairs while her parents got wrecked downstairs. There were children in all these houses.

I've worked in addiction services for many years and served on the Children's Panel here in Scotland seeing the fairytale side of life. Emergency hearing to execute a place of safety order for a 10 month baby left in her cot all weekend with a bottle of milk and nobody at home, children offending in the hope that we would send them somewhere that wasn't home, the near impossibility of getting children out of dangerous homes......all part of what made me take the decision I did.

This mother was not fit at that moment in time to have charge of a child. Not in any way. That was, and still is, my personal and professional opinion based on 40 years of experience. (And no, I wasn't a social worker before anyone rushes to condemn that overworked profession)

Let's try a bit of visualisation.... why don't we imagine taking our dgc's, when aged 4 or 5 , down to the busiest street in our towns, letting go their hands and disappearing round the corner leaving them to their own devices. Hold that thought. Comfortable with it? That child I saw yesterday deserves the same safety and security we afford our dgc's and I really hope that can be achieved even in some small way. At least I can put my hand up and say I tried, not write it off as how the other half live.

Oh and SW called back to say thank you for phoning in the incident. They have the situation in hand.