Kumon maths

Two of my sisters taught Kumon. They thought it was an excellent way of learning maths. I don’t know much about it though.
What do you want to know? I could ask them.

Why have you started two threads?

Both my DC were Kumon maths "tutors".
The class was run by a woman who employed sixth formers as tutors.
There wasn't really any teaching involved just tons of boring repetitive stuff. It's a franchise I think. I wouldn't waste your money. Having said that DS1 went in to become a maths teacher so I guess it had some benefit for him but he was quite scornful of the method.

When my oldest grandchildren were about 10years, that’s 12ish years ago, there was a very large poster on the vestibule of our Church. The Kumon tutor was probably Catholic.
I was half inclined to enrol them, but didn’t.
I don’t think she had many takers. I’m surprised it’s still going.

My son went to Kumon maths, gave him confidence, he went on to work for the tutor.

Someone I knew taught Kumon Maths and I think her students had very good results whereas they were struggling with maths in mainstream school. It seemed very popular.
However, she has retired now and I don't think anyone locally has taken over.

It should be possible to investigate all about the methods online before deciding.

Kumon maths has the repetition that there isn’t enough time for in school. If you repeatedly practice, until you can do something, you improve.

One of mine did it for a while, mainly because he hated maths, and once he'd been to Kumon for a while he hated it even more! It's very much repetition based which I felt he needed at the time. It was quite apparent in school there was a lot of flitting around in the subject, maybe a week doing fractions say, then on to the next thing and by the time the class had returned to fractions much had been forgotten, it was a common complaint from parents, not enough consolidation. There was a community centre near the school where Kumon classes were held, when we passed it one day, son said "some of my friends go there" and they did, but unbeknown to me, they were going to drama classes in another part of the building, although it was fair to say there were children from his school in the Kumon classes too.

It’s very structured and repetitive which suits some learners.

What it lacks is mathematical understanding. Students can tell you instantly that one third is the same as two sixths but don’t know why. Etc etc.

I found too they had been taught “speed tricks’ like if you multiply by 100 just add two noughts, without understanding why that should be.

I speak as someone who was taught maths in this way and didn’t understand maths until I had a revelation in my thirties that Maths was a creative process not just a massive range of facts.

Firstly I’m sorry if there are two threads. I thought the first one hadn’t been successful.
Thank you to those who have responded . My gd finds maths very difficult and I wondered if this might help

Can you find a tutor who is prepared to peel all the way back to where the lack of understanding lies. Sometimes it is way back in a basic understanding of number. Until that’s solidly in place all attempts to prop up more advanced maths will ultimately fail.

If you posed the problem

“The answer is 12. What is the question?” would he be able to give at least 12 different answers? And what functions would be missing?

That would tell you a lot about the basics.

Sometimes when I see new methods of teaching Maths they all seem a lot more difficult and long winded than when I was at school. However I've just had a quick look at this method and I must say it seems a lot more logical than recent innovations.

Kumon has been going since mine were young. It was very expensive for no actual teaching just the philosophy of practice every day.
I found some work books which I used on the same principle - ten sums/problems every day even at weekends which worked well.

Yes - it transformed my daughter’s maths abilities in Year 5 by ensuring that she understood the basics. It does through practice - repetition - until the child has fully grasped the maths operation sufficiently to move on to the next stage. Yes, it’s repetitive - but how else do we learn to calculate quickly and accurately? If you or your child learns an instrument - it’s like practising scales so you can play fluently. It involves someone at home insisting on your child doing 10-15 mins a day. This doesn’t suit everyone. My daughter is now 25 and is grateful to me for pushing her to do her Kumon homework and says she will definitely have her children do Kumon maths and English!

Children get taught different ways of doing calculations on the basis that they will find one that is easier for them. For some children that just adds to the confusion.

I found strategies like using an empty number line really helped some children understand. Or using more mental maths strategies instead of writing it down.
Being able to show you’d used the correct working out gained a mark in tests, even if the answer was wrong.
As the children got older and the strategies to promote understanding got more complex, they were less helpful to children who just needed something that would work.

Lots of new trends, but schools have gone right back to teaching the way we learned - not exclusively, but including long division and learning tables by rote

My dd did Kumon. It was brilliant. It really helps the child to grasp the elements of maths. The daily exercise sheets were fun to do and the teacher always praised the children no matter how well they did.

One of my foster children went as he was struggling with his maths at school. I chatted with some of the parents while waiting for him. They all seemed to be happy with their child’s progress my boy not do much. He pleaded with me for months to let him give it up. I relented eventually. I suppose it depends on the child as there’s lots of repetitive homework for them to do which my boy hated!

Some need repetitive work, , some really enjoy repetitive work and for some, once they understand something, repetitive work is pointless and boring.

It’s finding out what works for each child and then helping them to do it their way that works.

Repetition learning with number bonds eventually lead to understanding. If you are not struggling with the numbers, you have time to understand what you are doing. My children learned their multiplication tables repetitively and then we looked at patterns, where they were useful, etc. My grandaughter did Kumon whilst she took over a year out of school whilst in infant school and she went back streets ahead of the other children. There were mutterings about the gaps in her education when it came to her SATs but she did as well or better than her peers.

I think for some repetition of number bonds does then lead to understanding because they perceive the pattern.

But I also know that for some they know a whole load number facts (like 3x4=12 ) without in the least understanding why and then can only use that knowledge when it’s presented in that exact form.

I taught adult numeracy for a while and there was always a point where people couldn’t apply their knowledge of a number fact when it was presented in an alternative way, because they didn’t really understand why.

It’s only when you understand what numbers are and that they can be played with in lots of different ways that you really have a grasp on Mathematics.

It was an epiphany for me when I realised that Maths was about my control of numbers, not about their control of me ie getting the answer right.

More emphasis in EYFS is placed on being able to subitise small numbers of items, or pictures without actually counting 1, 2, 3 and developing that skill further leading to a better grasp of number bonds e.g. when given 3 counters, you automatically know how many more you’ll need to make 8,
Then seeing patterns e.g. knowing that because you needed to add 9 to 1 to get 10, and 9 to 11 to make 20. you’ll begin to see that adding 9 to a number ending in 1 will take you to the next tens number.
Learning tables.
In KS1 a lot of work is done on grouping or sharing equipment. Doing practical repeated addition and learning to record it both in addition and multiplication format
3 groups of 5 recorded as 5+5+5 or 3 x 5 helps to make sense of tables.
Eventually, for quick response, you need to know your tables. There isn’t time to count out 6 lots of 16 and count up to 96 in a maths test, or even physically count 45 counters into groups of 15 to answer that 45 divided by 3 is 15
Lots of grans on here will have learnt and applied their tables without knowingly learning the background work, but it helps develop today’s children’s confidence to work with objects and pictures first.

I was a Kumon tutor about 20 years ago. Most of the class were year 7 and 8 who hadn’t learnt number bonds or tables in primary and so were falling behind in secondary school. Our classes were fun. Straight after school and Only 30 minutes or so twice a week with daily homework. I had a couple of 6th form helpers and markers to encourage and set up etc. In the community hall. It wasn’t expensive and all the parents were happy with their child’s progress as were the children as was I with the financial reward. I once gave a talk on Kumon to a group of teachers in a local school. They were sooo dismissive of the system it was comical as they hadn’t managed to teach the kids I was teaching basic numeracy but nevertheless insisted repetition and speed ref number bonds was unnecessary.