Notice of unsafe grave.

So what do you think might be unreasonable?

absent

I am just wondering if I would be unreasonable if I suggest to the other members of the family we should let the council lay the stone flat.
I don't think anybody visits that grave now.
If I am out voted I will pay as the amount involved is not worth upsetting the family for.
Out of interest my daughters generation is not being asked to contribute.

Frank

Yet another amazing anecdote.

Frank - you make my day!

Perhaps a disclaimer on the grave to the effect that anyone leaning on the stone does so at their own risk?

Just let it get laid flat Frank. Its much safer in the long run.

Nelliemoser

That is another thought I have had since I wrote my thread to absent.
I have not visited the grave and I don't intend to do so as it is in Cardiff and I live in Birmingham.
Some local relatives have visited it and have stated it is starting to come loose.
They have e mailed me and rest of the relatives attaching a photograph and it is certainly showing signs of deterioration.
I am wondering if there is a risk of the stone breaking in half for example on a windy day and it falling on somebody standing by it.
I have also asked the person to contact the council to ask what evidence they have the grave belongs to the family.
The surname on it is Davies and a large part of the family was Davies at the time. That family name has almost gone like the Hunter's due to many of them only having girls.
Davies is however a very common name in South Wales.

Frank

I think it is good that there are still people prepared to maintain family graves. I was in a Yorkshire village churchyard and saw a notice hanging round a headstone, the gist of the message was to ring a telephone number in America if the grave looks as if it is in disrepair and they would get something done about it. Recent addition to the churchyard ? not at all, it was dated at end of 19C.

harrigran

To be honest this is the first I know about this grave and as far as we know nobody visits it.
My father was born in 1923 and the person passed away about 6 months before he was born.
Dad never mentioned this grave.
We still have a member of the family alive who was born in 1919 who lives in Tamworth and he can not remember anything about it. His memory is very good and he has nothing like dementia.
That said it is a long time ago and he would have only been 4 at the time.
We are prepared to contribute something if it is a family members grave to keep it safe etc but I would be surprised if anybody will visit it on a regular basis.
Laying the grave stone flat is probably the best solution and the council has said that would be done free. As I have said if we get it repaired will future generations be interested especially in say the year 3000.
The local relatives have said that as the grave yard is on the side of a valley they can not see buildings being put there but you never know what the future will bring.
They have told me very few services are now held in the church so it sounds as if the church will become redundant.

Frank

I think you are right Frank laying the stone flat is probably the best option, it will also put an end to requests for payment for repair.
I repeat, it is nice that there are caring people like you around, you are a credit to your family

It is worth remembering though that lying flat is not at all good for the gravestone. It will weather faster than it would upright, and the names and dates on it will become indecypherable to future seekers for their ancestors. If possible it need to be repositioned against a wall nearby, or a similar place.

Elegran

I will suggest that to the local relatives and they will enquire but I don't know if there are any suitable walls in the cemetery and I don't know if there are any on going costs etc which future relatives might not be interested in paying.
If it is going to be say £100 per relative I think there may be some problems.

Frank

It sepends how many people chip in, Frank

If someone photographed the stone there would be a record for the future. There are local history societies who collect and preserve such records.

Elegran

I see what you are saying but we are asking blood relatives to contribute up to my generation. 9 of them are from my generation and there is the one from the previous generation born in 1919.
Dad contributed as well until his death.
With regard to the relative born in 1919 we would have left him out if we felt he was not in a position to pay but he has stated he has a good works pension and a widows pension from his late wife.
With regard to my daughters generation I would say my own daughters are in a position to contribute but there are some still at school so we thought the fairest thing was to leave them out.
Again a closer photograph could be taken. I can not see the detail on the one I have got but I understand cemetery records are kept.
Out of interest a coach accident happened a few years ago and it smashed a few of the grave stones at the road side of the church so there is no guarantee grave stones will be preserved.
The stone belonging to my relative was undamaged.

Frank

It is not possible to maintain graves forever and if the person concerned is long dead and no member of the family remembers them, I can see no point in maintaining the grave. Why not just get the stone removed and end the problem. If any organisation wants to keep it for historic or landscape reasons let them maintain them.

Hunter a good photograph taken when the sun is low and shinng sideways on the stone will show more than you can with the naked eye, and can be digitally enhanced if anyone in the future wants a better look.

There are, as someone else has said many local family history groups who have listed all the legible memorial stones in an town or parish. I suspect the the graveyard owners have a duty to do what they want with any dangerous monuments. If the grave space is full and the last body was put in in 1920 it surely does not matter who alive would remember them? They would have to be at least 96 to have any recollection.

FlicketyB

Really I don't think it is worth paying and if I had my way I would let the council lay the stone flat.
I don't really want to fall out with the other relatives for the sake of £15.

Frank

For goodness sake what does it matter. The dying business is purely a scam to get your money.

I have told my better half that if I go first she is to put me in a garbage bag and take me to the local dump. Of course in this ridiculous country there are probably laws (public health garbage etc) against this.
Whatever tell the undertaker to do the same thing.

I am gone I cannot see any point in spending good money on getting rid of the waste that I have left - there is nothing there after all.

Hehe! Well said, GOM

Grumpy - with respect, although a financial spin may be placed on death in some societies, the respect and attendant ceremony offered to the dead crosses every culture^(I am happy to be corrected on this; back of my head says there were 2 exceptions which I can't now locate)^ regardless of wealth or absolute absence of materialism i.e Papua New Guinea, some of the Amazon tribes etc .

The process has much to do with the psychology of those who are left grieving and elaborate rites have taken place for thousands of years.

I also would rather go out in a cardboard box than see money wasted on an expensive funeral, but my daughters are appalled by the idea that I might not have a service and the attendant "fuss".......and I would take a guess that your own loved ones are less than enthused by the garbage bag concept.

The ceremony matters to the people we leave behind.

I agree, funerals are for the friends and relatives. A final goodbye to round off a celebrate a life.

I agree too but I think Grumpy's point was meant to be that it's a bit daft to be spending money on propping a gravestone up a hundred years later.