Anne Boleyn

25Avalon

No I do not expect all actors and actresses to exactly resemble the person they are portraying in all respects but I do expect them to follow known facts such as AB, Bodeccia, Mary Queen of Scots, etc were white. I did watch some of Victoria but stopped watching when I realised that it was at variance with historical facts regarding her and Lord Melbourne as I had studied this period. I know Martin Luther King was black. So to render the argument reductio absurdo Doodlebug would you expect a black actor to play Hitler?

So how about the French Canadian actress who played Anne? Does the fact that she was white mean that was OK although it clearly wasn't historically correct.

25Avalon

Sarnia I think it has been done to challenge perceptions which is something art does. Historically, however, I agree it is incorrect and for this reason I won’t be watching it as I am a purist. For the same reason I did not watch Victoria as it was historically incorrect, and I would not watch a white man portraying Martin Luther King. When it comes to Othello that is fiction and idk how many black actors were around when Sir Larry played the part but he had to black up. Maybe a black actress could be whitened up in the interests of authenticity?

Sidney Poitier was another brilliant actor, still alive at 94.

Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make.

Quite agree holysteers. For me there has to be at least a surface resemblance to an historical figure and to historical facts. Sometimes art deviates in its presentation to challenge us but loses credibility for me. I don’t watch The Crown as it is historically inaccurate which I do know having lived through the time. Even PH said it only loosely followed history. To people who were not there it is a distortion of the truth which some take as gospel.

For the same reason I do not watch fiction which has been sexed up so it is a completely wrong portrayal of the times and is most definitely not in the book.

There is no portrait of Anne that indicates whether she is short, tall, thin or fat. What we know is that she had (or said she had) a little neck, that she was brunette, she was flat chested and that she was not considered conventionally beautiful. Despite this people are happy to see her played by very good looking actors, regardless of the size of their necks or breasts.

People are prepared to allow casting directors to ignore the things we don't know and use their discretion when casting, and to play fast and loose with some of the things we do know about her appearance, but woe betide them if they get the skin colour wrong. I can't help but think that this is 'interesting'.

I'm on a roll now. Last one, promise....

i doubt any people under about 40 would even think this is an issue.

....and Elizabeth was not mixed race.

She wasn't a man either..... and yet.....

www.imdb.com/title/tt0107756/mediaviewer/rm230657793/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0187998&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

Maori-Jewish actor playing Hitler.

www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jul/25/jojo-rabbit-trailer-taika-waititi-plays-a-paunchy-hitler-in-anti-hate-satire

Is this allowed?

(Wish there was a sarcasm emoji)

A surface resemblance to an historical figure is not too much to ask for. Also for educational purposes, the film would be useless as Anne was not black and Elizabeth was not mixed race.
I’m watching Halston on Netflix and part of the enjoyment is the surface resemblance to the real person. Wilfully going against it would lessen the pleasure. I suppose as it’s hundreds of years ago, it’s assumed we don’t care.
The argument about skin colour for Othello has been going on for a long time. Shakespeare called him a Moor, which could mean varying shades of darkness.

25Avalon

No I do not expect all actors and actresses to exactly resemble the person they are portraying in all respects but I do expect them to follow known facts such as AB, Bodeccia, Mary Queen of Scots, etc were white. I did watch some of Victoria but stopped watching when I realised that it was at variance with historical facts regarding her and Lord Melbourne as I had studied this period. I know Martin Luther King was black. So to render the argument reductio absurdo Doodlebug would you expect a black actor to play Hitler?

So it is only skin colour that matters, not eyes, hair or any of the other characteristics that make people look as they do?

I don't know enough about the Victorian era to pick up on anything at variance with my understanding of it, but could it be that there has been recent research that has shed a difference light on your own understanding?

I don't know - the relationship between Victoria and Melbourne may have been misrepresented - often dramatists will combine characters for dramatic effect, for instance - but I do know that historians are very wary of talking about 'historical facts' other than to say that a battle or a coronation etc happened on a particular date.

Hitler played by a black actor? I don't know - it would depend why it was decided to do it, which is what I have said about the Anne Boleyn series. Until I've seen it I won't know what I think.

Could be interesting though but not if you were portraying the historical facts. Would also have Hitler turning in his grave.

Sorry should be Doodledog

No I do not expect all actors and actresses to exactly resemble the person they are portraying in all respects but I do expect them to follow known facts such as AB, Bodeccia, Mary Queen of Scots, etc were white. I did watch some of Victoria but stopped watching when I realised that it was at variance with historical facts regarding her and Lord Melbourne as I had studied this period. I know Martin Luther King was black. So to render the argument reductio absurdo Doodlebug would you expect a black actor to play Hitler?

When you say you are a purist, 25Avalon, how far do you take it? Do you expect all actors to match the 'originals' in terms of hair colour, eyes, height, gait? Where do you draw the line, and bearing in mind that when all we have to go on are commissioned portraits by artists who were keen to flatter their patrons, how do you know what the original looked like?

And how do you know that something you haven't watched is incorrect?

That sounds quite probing, and it's not meant to ?. I'm just interested in how people decide which bits of history to take as 'pure'.

Sarnia I think it has been done to challenge perceptions which is something art does. Historically, however, I agree it is incorrect and for this reason I won’t be watching it as I am a purist. For the same reason I did not watch Victoria as it was historically incorrect, and I would not watch a white man portraying Martin Luther King. When it comes to Othello that is fiction and idk how many black actors were around when Sir Larry played the part but he had to black up. Maybe a black actress could be whitened up in the interests of authenticity?

Sidney Poitier was another brilliant actor, still alive at 94.

Yes Claire Foy was wonderful. I really enjoyed both the book and the film. I loved the way she spoke,too, with the French accent. I also still remember, years ago, Henry V111 played by Keith Michell. He was so good I still think of it !

I shall watch it with interest. I wasn't impressed by the trailer, but it does only show snippets. As far as I'm concerned Claire Foy has been the best Anne in Wolf Hall. Her execution was heartbreaking. She was very good at portraying the powerful woman controlling the king and not realising until too late that she had lost control and Henry was going to go to any lengths to get what he wanted.

King Henry Vlll was a serial abuser IMV

He was an out and out tyrant.

Your modern turn of phrase for his actions made me laugh Blossoming.
Not at you I hope you understand!

theworriedwell

I don't remember any fuss when a French Canadian actress (Geneviève Bujold) played Anne Boleyn in Anne of a Thousand Days. She even won a award for it, how authentic was that?

But Anne Boleyn lived many years in France. She was fluent in the language and fashion of the court. Being, as she was a favourite of the Queen.
So there was at least some justification.

Does anyone know the start date for this series? I have seen trailers saying 'coming soon', but not a date, and I want to set my recorder in case we aren't here when it airs.

I am team Anne as well.

I think Jodie Turner-Smith is an excellent choice to play Queen Anne Boleyn. She’s strong, aware of the difficulties women face in life and being black will only have added to those difficulties. From what I’ve read this programme isn’t just regurgitating the myths (not always historical facts) surrounding Queen Anne Boleyn. It will be very much presenting events through Anne’s eyes. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they do with this.

I’m definitely Team Anne, I have always thought history has not been kind to her. King Henry VIII was a serial abuser imho.

Me again! The third nipple and sixth finger were both introduced as rumours by the Elizabethan writer, Nicholas Sander, who I mentioned upthread. As he wanted to get a Catholic ruler on the throne, specifically Mary, he was trying to discredit Elizabeth by casting doubt on Anne, and claiming that she was a witch, so Elizabeth was a witch's daughter and therefore not entitled to the throne.

It says a lot that those rumours have continued to the present day - I remember being told about them at school.

And if rumour is to be believed, a third nipple!

Also for historical accuracy, they actress would have to have an extra finger on one hand.