Anne Boleyn

In the late 20thC the BBC made really high quality historical dramas which focused on accuracy and attention to detail. I don't think they can be surpassed. Making it 'topical' to attract younger viewers, with no attempt at accuracy, doesn't do them any favours.

I re-watched the Keith Mitchel version the other day, and it was so clunky and overdone by today’s standards.

I remembered it as being an example of great tv drama - I was a child when it was first broadcast, and it sparked my interest in all things Tudor - but it has definitely dated. I was quite disappointed.

Old dramas are very plodding by today's standards. You have to get your brain accustomed to the slow pace. Ultimately it's worthwhile because they are so detailed with superb acting. I watched The Mayor of Casterbridge with Alan Bates and it was very slow and plodding, but I was so glad to have watched it because it was superb. Maybe our brains are now being reprogrammed to a faster pace which may not be good. ?

I have to say both me and my husband were moved to tears when we stood where Anne was executed. I don't feel the AB story has been done to death and would like more about Elizabeth 1. They are always trying to do her down - mother and daughter - and still glorify Henry.

Chestnut

In the late 20thC the BBC made really high quality historical dramas which focused on accuracy and attention to detail. I don't think they can be surpassed. Making it 'topical' to attract younger viewers, with no attempt at accuracy, doesn't do them any favours.

Well, they were accurate as far as the evidence available at the time suggested, according to one interpretation, but I don't think they can be regarded as definitive.

I think you might be right about our brains expecting a quicker pace now, perhaps because so much information is instantaneously available now, we are not used to a slow trawl of discovery.
The Mayor of Casterbridge is fiction though, so there is a definitive version, because there is only the one book.

Whatdayisit

I have to say both me and my husband were moved to tears when we stood where Anne was executed. I don't feel the AB story has been done to death and would like more about Elizabeth 1. They are always trying to do her down - mother and daughter - and still glorify Henry.

I know what you mean about the place where she was executed (although I have heard tiny rumours about the accuracy of the actual spot)
Her story is heart breaking.

It's rather creepy that there are execution sites in all our towns and we walk right past them often not knowing. Innocent women burnt as witches as well. So tragic to think how cheap life was back then, people executed for no good reason. Now we keep even the most evil people alive. I feel a new thread coming on.......

Ilovecheese - i find the whole experience at the Tower of London quite emotionally draining. Some places just have a thick energy still especially around Traitors Gate.
Now that is something that hasn't been done to death or very much at all - witchhunts in England.
I suspect there would be outcries of 'too far' and 'more nonsense from the Woke brigade'. I bet Laurence Fox would enjoy playing a Witchhunter General.

I remember feeling the temperature drop as I walked down the gallery at Hampton Court where Catherine Howard is supposed to have run to try and reach Henry. I've heard Lucy Worsley say the effect is well known and they frequently have visitors fainting.

Whatdayisit

Ilovecheese - i find the whole experience at the Tower of London quite emotionally draining. Some places just have a thick energy still especially around Traitors Gate.
Now that is something that hasn't been done to death or very much at all - witchhunts in England.
I suspect there would be outcries of 'too far' and 'more nonsense from the Woke brigade'. I bet Laurence Fox would enjoy playing a Witchhunter General.

I would have thought the reverse, really - the so-called 'woke brigade' would be more likely to want to see injustice exposed, particularly when it is injustice against women, but maybe I have misunderstood what you mean by 'the woke brigade'.

Deedaa Catherine Howard's story is very sad, isn't it? She was so very young to be married off to an old, fat, festering man, and then to be executed because of her previous relationship is horribly cruel.

Yes, what happened to Catherine Howard was wicked.

I seem to remember seeing a film about Mathew Hopkins when I was T school Witchfinder General, I think it was Richard Harris. Must Google!

Vincent Price was the Witchfinder, I think.

Doodledog sorry if my post wasn't very clear/doesn't make sense. I intended it to mean that
'More nonsense from the Woke Brigade' is what the anti-Wokes would be saying.
In essence there should be less about Henry Viii and more about the brutality toward women over the Centuries but it would get dismissed as Woke rather than history.

Ah yes, thank you grumppa

Whatdayisit

Doodledog sorry if my post wasn't very clear/doesn't make sense. I intended it to mean that
'More nonsense from the Woke Brigade' is what the anti-Wokes would be saying.
In essence there should be less about Henry Viii and more about the brutality toward women over the Centuries but it would get dismissed as Woke rather than history.

Ah, I see. I misinterpreted your post, sorry.

Ilovecheese I don't think I would ever be bored by this story. It is universal in that is about love and about what happens when love is gone

It’s about lust actually. He wanted her and she refused. He was so used to having what he wanted, when he wanted, it drove him mad to be turned down. Once he’d got what he wanted, she was just another of his cast offs. The only thing that could save her was to give him a son and she failed (in his eyes). Her father and uncle, the Duke of Norfolk used her to further their aims and the poor men that were tortured into confessing were also tragic victims. Henry VIII was a monster. Most of those close to him were put to death on a whim.

Love didn’t feature in this piece of history at all.

We don't know what they felt for each other, though. There are letters from Henry to Anne, and scribbled notes in her book of hours that suggest that he did love her, and that she loved him.

Clearly he didn't love her at the end of her life, and that fits with the behaviour of someone with a narcissistic personality disorder - fall in love, then devalue the loved one, then discard them and move onto the next.

History has been keen to present Anne as scheming and manipulative, but historians are reassessing that rather misogynistic view, and seeing her as a victim of his personality disorder.

I see her as as much of a victim as the accused men. I'm looking forward to seeing the programme tomorrow - I hope it lives up to the expectations ?

Anne Boleyn's best 'revenge' was Elizabeth. I am looking forward to the programme i won't get to watch tomorrow night so will avoid the threads!!

Ah yes, Elizabeth, their mixed race daughter.

Well we accepted Robert Powell as Jesus of Nazareth and Ian McShane as Judas for long enough so what does it matter.

I've never actually thought of Anne as scheming or manipulative. Or for most of her life as a victim.

She was intelligent, well educated, politically astute and impressed with the new (ish) teachings of Protestantism.

She knew what was expected of her, after all her sister had trodden a similar path before her, and actually had a son by Henry, at the age of 17.

Anne had the misfortune not to deliver a baby boy to Henry.

That led him to encourage trumped up charges to rid himself of her, and try with the next one.

He was a tyrant.

Mary Boleyn, or the whole Boleyn (it was spelt Bullen before they made it to court!) family are very interesting.
I should like to see a more about them, to be honest.

Whatdayisit

Well we accepted Robert Powell as Jesus of Nazareth and Ian McShane as Judas for long enough so what does it matter.

Well we've just had 17 pages of discussion here on why it matters, so the answer lies there. ?

We've had numerous people tell us how silly it would be to have a white man playing MLK so I think Whatdayisit is well within her rights to tell us about Jesus of Nazareth!

Jesus of Nazareth was made 44 years ago and many things have changed in TV and movies since then!