Anne Boleyn

lemongrove

And you seem determined to label as racist anyone who doesn’t agree with your way of thinking Doodledog
Otherwise what is your comment of ...‘Yup.It’s very simple to grasp the thinking behind the objections’ about? I would say that is most definitely a snide comment from you.

I haven't labelled anyone racist. I said that it is simple to see the thinking behind objections to the skin colour of an across being more important than any of the numbers other characteristics that have been pointed out on this thread. IMO, putting skin colour ahead of any other characteristic is at best prejudice and prejudice can be born of racism, although that is (to me) a very serious accusation that I wouldn't use lightly, so I would only use any such accusation sparingly, and did not (directly or by implication) on this thread. I always try to give people the benefit of any doubt, as I hope my posts on GN will show.

I have never 'played a race card', and the idea that there is such a thing also says a lot about those who use it. Not necessarily that they are racist, but that they object to having racist ideas explored in a way that might paint them in a bad light. The concept that people who don't like racism are 'playing a game' and using a trick card to cheat at the game is a very unpleasant one, I think, and is used to avoid the need to enter into a discussion in a useful manner.

Telling people who have bothered to give serious thought to the thread that they are giving you something to laugh at, however, and setting yourself up as an awarder of a spurious trophy adds nothing to the debate and is, as I say, very rude.

Stop digging a hole ( you’ll never get out!)

You were annoyed by the fact that I was laughing is all.

I am on the side of accurate depictions in tv drama about real people and you are not.Live with it.

I must say that some of the posts on this thread could cure me of insomnia. I just gave up halfway through one - fgs !

lemongrove

Stop digging a hole ( you’ll never get out!)

You were annoyed by the fact that I was laughing is all.

I am on the side of accurate depictions in tv drama about real people and you are not.Live with it.

Ok, you tell me what I was thinking. You do seem to know everything about everything.

I'll 'live with' our differences very happily ?

Aveline

*FannyCornforth*. Think about it. Perception of difference is hard wired into us. Look at every culture and country throughout history. I didn't say it was a good thing just an unavoidable one.

My husband isn't white. Someone pointed it when we were engaged. I'd never thought about it.

That's great worriedwell. Obviously not everyone was oblivious though. I hope life has been smooth for you.

Aveline

That's great worriedwell. Obviously not everyone was oblivious though. I hope life has been smooth for you.

Well not really, he became disabled 30 years ago so I've worked and been his carer and for much of the time was also bringing up 4 kids. Nothing to do with his colour though. So not exactly smooth.

It hasn't caused many problems to be honest, we are the same religion which I think helps as we had a similar education and childhood. I think culture can be a bigger problem than colour sometimes but maybe that is just me.

I agree with you. Cultural differences are behind so many problems in this world. Sounds like you've had your hands full over the years.

It is funny but my parents were both from Ireland, small coutry you might think. He was from the south from a Catholic family, she was from the north from a very orange family. Bitter orange she always called them.

I always say the colour difference (green and orange) was much more significant in their marriage than the colour difference in mine.

lemongrove

A black William the Conqueror anyone? Or Boudicca?
Should a white actor play Martin Luther King?
Come on....you know it’s nuts, but PC-ness ( wildly misplaced) is making a few posters twist and turn.

How many times ?! Anne Boleyn story had nothing to with her being white it was her fate as Henry’s wife . Martin Luther king’s story was all to do with being black therefore has to be played by a black actor

Unless it was a completely fictional story where white people were the slaves then the “ethnic minority” race of course.

I do get fed up with the expression “play the race card”.
It’s a bit like ‘ ooh political correctness gone mad”

When I started this discussion it was never from a racial or political correctness angle. Call me old-fashioned but I like historical drama to be authentic and to show as accurately as possible what we know about people and places from that era. For me, Anne Boleyn was white. I appreciate that many posters hold a different view as they are entitled to do but playing the race card was never the intention.

I quote: Why is a black woman playing Anne Boleyn? Has this been done to appease those who want to change our history?

Not from a racial or PC angle? Aye, right.

How can it be not 'from a race angle'?
Also, I think that you misunderstand 'playing the race card'.
It's what people accused of racism accuse their accusers of.
Upthread I accused someone of racism.
Therefore, I could be accused of 'playing the race card'.
In fact I think that lemongrove did (I don't have a problem with this btw. I don't enjoy accusing people of being racist - it's just as I believed it to be.)
Sorry - I'm a bit waffley today...

I've just seen the photographs of this new Anne Boleyn. Visually, it just doesn't look right especially as all the costumes and sets are authentically 16th century. Why not just do it in modern dress if key details are to be so radically altered?

https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-968193-28945576-10213429556748212-391741918-o.jpg%3C/span%3E https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-869687-black-tudor-portrait-2.jpg%3C/span%3E

Authentically 16th Century.

So are people of colour a new fangled modern thing?
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm so glad that I'm not so hung up about colour.

I've been thinking about the Les Mis story.
They were just casting the best people for the job, surely? Perhaps they couldn't find a little black girl who was good enough to play the role. Should they have cast a substandard young black actress, and overlook the white girl?
Or just sack of the older black actress, because it was just all too problematic?

I'm baffled, and frankly a bit shocked, that this casting decision provoked such a strong, even visceral, reaction.

Sack off, that should be, as in get shut of.

The dress in that photo seems to have a white collar of transparent material. I do hope it isn't made of nylon or any other man made fabric. If we are going for authenticity let's do it properly! Is that dress hand sewn???

Was Anne Boleyn of black African origin? No.

With no animosity intended Aveline, can you not see that saying the sight of a black person in Tudor garb is not authentically 16th Century, might just be a little bit incendiary?

Aveline

Was Anne Boleyn of black African origin? No.

We're never going to get anywhere with this.
It either bothers you or not.
It doesn't bother me one iota.
It does bother you, quite a lot.

FannyCornforth

How can it be not 'from a race angle'?
Also, I think that you misunderstand 'playing the race card'.
It's what people accused of racism accuse their accusers of.
Upthread I accused someone of racism.
Therefore, I could be accused of 'playing the race card'.
In fact I think that lemongrove did (I don't have a problem with this btw. I don't enjoy accusing people of being racist - it's just as I believed it to be.)
Sorry - I'm a bit waffley today...

No, Lemongrove didn’t, as it happens.

I, along with other posters who think that in a drama, Anne Boleyn should be played by a white actor because Boleyn was white, have had a few sneery remarks aimed at us insinuating that we must be racist or have racist thoughts.
To say an oft repeated phrase on GN... you couldn’t make it up!
It just shows how posters can get things horribly muddled and their own views of somebody else ‘being racist’ can be so wrong.

Fanny I do think it bothers you a lot, and you have ended up getting the wrong end of the stick.
We can agree or disagree with this drama casting.

lemongrove

I wondered how long it would be before the PC brigade pulled the racist card.You get the trophy Doodledog ?
Pathetic.
I prefer any drama based on real people to be as accurate as possible.

Sorry, lemongrove. It wasn't me, it was Doodledog that you said it of.
You asked me not to accuse people of racism.

I'm playing devils advocate here, but picture this:
A film/play set in 1960s south Africa during apartheid. The story is set around a poverty stricken black woman and her struggle to bring up her family alone. If this part were portrayed by a white young man?

Or the America civil war. The story centres around escaping slaves, and Chinese actors took the part of the slaves?

Or Mao zedong played by a Aboriginal female actor.

How would that feel to the respective audiences in those countries?

I think the whole point of making this program is to engage in this sort of discussion.

Not to expect people to be colour blind.