Feeling furious at this mornings BBC news.

When politicians (it usually is politicians) make pious pronouncements about elderly care, I invariably wonder whether they'd say the same if they ever had to look after anyone with beyond early stage dementia, 24/7, with virtually no help or time off.

After doing that for say 3 months, they might be entitled to comment.

These days medicine can keep people going for years - quantity rather than quality of life
I do think that modern medicines can give quality of life too as well as, in many cases, prolonging it.

I think what many 'experts' fail to understand is that older people do have minds of their own and rightly or wrongly, think that they are capable of carrying on with their lives as they see fit until they are in need of nursing - which could be then beyond the capabilities of even the most caring family member.

We're people, not problems.

Does this knuckle head remember how families lived, when every family cared for own elderly? Elderly grandparents sharing bedrooms and beds with their grandchildren or even sleeping on the living room settee, elderly people with no privacy, no belongings, children having to deal with incontinent grandparents and help them to the commode or outside loo.

Oh happy times! Why doesn't he go and live like that for a while and see how he likes it.

Last thing I would want when or if I get decrepit?? is that my children would have to do any personal care for me? but I hope I would be willing to buy in care such as cleaners and someone to bring me meals etc. It worries me how many tales there are in various threads of selfish old people making AC run themselves ragged!suppose I am one of these and not the sweet heart of my imagination??

I think most people will carry on until they need nursing, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. These days medicine can keep people going for years - quantity rather than quality of life. I think it is essential to have some idea of how we are going to pay for care for at least part of our lives. The younger generation won't be taking us into their homes and spoon feeding us and wiping rear ends. Come to think of it I don't think most of us want or expect it.

People should remember that elderly parents do not always live nearby, or are prepared to accept any help or make any concessions; mine lived 180 miles away, and my father, incapable of looking after my mother, flatly refused to move nearer, downsize into more convenient accommodation, accept any help from social services or stop driving until he was reported as unsafe.
I was powerless to do anything without his consent, and at one time was driving up once a fortnight, between working full time, single parent with teenage children taking GCSEs and A levels. Same as a great many people on here.
It doesn't help being lectured about taking more responsibility and told you could give up work when yours is the only income, and you feel guilty anyway.

I should have added that, although DM needed help because she couldn't do much for herself, she was very easy and agreeable.

Taking them into their homes does not mean they have to give up work necessarily.
DM lived with us and I worked not far away and could work (slightly) flexible hours but even so it was a struggle to juggle children, a parent who needed help, a DH working away and work as well.
I was lucky to have a very understanding boss but not everyone's work is so accommodating. Even so, when there were deadlines to meet, my oldest DC had to take over at home and she was only 14 at the time.

Children and near relatives should take some responsibility for the elderly people in their families, I agree, but I expect that would to some extent depend on how close and loving a relationship was.

I do feel, however, that it is sad when people just "abandon" their parents - either by not visiting them in their own homes or in care homes.

My own Mum is in her nineties and I visit her weekly. I do quite a bit for her - laundry, sorting out her appointments and filing, finances, gardening, tidying up, etc. It is a very long day if I travel by train. She complains constantly, is demanding and quite manipulative. I usually come home feeling very tired, stressed and somewhat depressed. If she were to live with me, I think it would make me ill.

Whether people feel able to care for their parent(s) in their homes is dependent on a number of things, not least the amount of care that is needed and how agreeable (or disagreeable) the parent is. Those who have been able to do it may be of the opinion that everybody can and should do it but I don't think it's that simple.

I looked after my late grandma in her own home for the last 10 years of her life ( she died just over 2 years ago aged 99) . At the same time I looked after my 3 grandchildren 2-3 days and nights per week to enable their parents to work . Additionally I helped look after my then very poorly mum ( bone cancer and kidney failure) who has also passed away . I work 32 hours a week with no pension until I am 67 + . I now care for my elderly father and am supporting my daughter, her partner and their new baby through the worst of times .

When do these politicians expect that I (and people like me ) will have a life of our own? I wonder .

Families should take more of a responsibility for their parents (at least). Taking them into their homes does not mean they have to give up work necessarily.

I don’t think this proposal should be lambasted as ALL options need to be explored. It’s just too easy for folks these days to expect the State to pick up the bill, the responsibility and not expect to pay.

We live in a ‘Bloody Nanny State’ I keep hearing people moan ? oh, but they’re so willing to call in Nanny to give her services when it doesn’t suit them.....and for free.

No idea of life today. Just magicup families who have accommodation,funds and of course the time and don't forget knowledge of how to look after elderly. The UK needs to look to the Netherlands on how to care for elderly especially with dementia. There are little "village type settings where elderly go about freely doing what they can but are secure, have all their needs met but not in a care home building. Of course this would mean spending money by Government but eventually the costs would reduce as less staff will be required, and strangely the people improve!. To go on, I keep thinking all of this "living longer" is something that should have been anticipated. Why was the NHS created, to improve health so of course there are more elderly now. Governments just fail to address this factor and treat it as it should never have happened. No foresight or planning by Governments. Done for the day!!!

I didn't see the item but, having read up on Paul Horrocks, I am not surprised about the views he has expressed.

When he was President of the UK Society of Editors, the Society put out a statement, following the phone hacking scandal, saying that the press had been unfairly targeted and were in fact victims!

His professional profile includes the information "wide experience of change management and behaviour change campaigns aimed at the public". In order to change people's behaviour it is necessary to change their attitudes. So if you encourage people to think that society as a whole is not responsible for the care of elderly people but that it is the sole responsibility of their relatives, you pave the way for the government to wash its hands of the elder care issue - or at least minimise it.

Thank you mcem and LiltingLyrics

It was Paul Horrocks - former president of the UK Society of Editors. He was chair of NHS Bury at one point. Find the clip here on BBC Breakfast about 1 hour 20 minutes in. bbc.in/2KppoiL

Paul Horrocks, former president of UK Society of Editors, seems to be very involved with NHS and was discussing the suggestion that, although dementia sufferers probably need specialist care, the majority of those who need care could be at home being looked after by families. He referred to the fact that this is far more common in other countries/cultures but did not address any of the issues raised by morethan.
I found it on Catchup, bbc breakfast@ approx 07.20.

I'm trying too.
Was it a segment during Breakfast on bbc1?

I can't find it Luckygirl

We are already the Sandwich generation.

Our children's generation are already struggling with buying their own home many are paying high rents that are rising yearly.
High cost of child care means that grandparents are providing child care.

Our generation are already helping to care for elderly parents.

Children are boomeranging back home.
Rents too high or university debt etcetera.

So please can I have nice big house.
Doubles x2_ for my children and partners.
3 Singles for DGC.
Single for mother in law (93with dementia)

Oh and a double for DH and I.
Plus various pets and goldfish

And mother in law requires a downstairs toilet and walk in shower.
Also wheel chair ramp and doors wide enough to accommodate wheelchair.

You can watch the programme on BBC iPLayer.

Glad I'm not the only one morethan2

I’m really sorry even if I had his name I couldn’t post a link, I wouldn’t know how.

Who is this person morethan2 - do you have a link please?

He obviously thinks we live in times where the man worked and earned enough to keep the little woman at home caring for him, the children and later their own parents and In-Laws. He will have no concept of giving up his well paid job to become a Carer existing on benefits.

In fact his rose-coloured view of the past only ever existed for the better off. Yes I knew many instances where Granny lived with their family, doing the childminding and household chores while both DS and DD worked. There also, post war, seemed to be a plenitude of unmarried/widowed DDs who remained in the family home and took care of the 'oldies'. Families tended to be larger and all lived close by so could all pitch in and help.

Now 2 salaries/wages are required to run a household, staff are at their employers beck and call and work long hours, mortgages and childcare are extortionate, people seldom live in the same area as their parents.

However the biggest change is that PEOPLE ARE LIVING LONGER. All of my DGP died suddenly in their late 60s or early 70's of strokes/heart attacks without having been very ill for a long time. The next generation 4X Parents + 2 x Maiden Aunts and later an Uncle. lived into their 80/90s and all needed varying amounts of care from us simultaneously and were in and out of hospital. With DH being an only child and me having only one sister, (all working full time+) it was impossible to meet all their needs adequately so 2 spent their last years in residential care and another 3 had daily home helps while we spent evenings and weekends shopping for them and visiting.

Perhaps these people in their 50's, whose parents are still ticking along nicely without needing assistance will suddenly have a change of opinion when they are brought face to face with the reality of 24/7 caring and realise that the cost of professional care e,g a few years of paying for a care home will see their expected inheritance disappear.

Gone are the days when families lived within walking distance of each other and a lot of women were the primary carer, cooking, shopping, cleaning, washing etc for their elders even for "aunty May" who wasn't related but just lived next door all the years they did. We run up and down the motorways to care for our relations and it's taking a real strain on us financially as well as in other ways (car getting worn as it was just bought as a litte run around) YES agree they live in totally different world and the care system needs to be overhauled. We're looking out for an elderly gent as he has no family and our details ended up as the ones to contact about his welfare so they can free up the hospital bed on more than one occassion.